Help with Chinese export porcelain plate?

Happy Easter everyone

I picked up this plate today and looking for some help and info about it as I've found a few conflicting sources online via image search.

Most likely I think it is Chinese but would it be classed as 'export porcelain' ? The few other examples with similar decoration are listed as Qing dynasty - but only one other source so I'd love some confirmation on this from anyone who might know.

Also there is an outlier option to check too... the first result that comes up on image search attributes this exact pattern match to a Ventian workshop of GEMINIANO COZZI along with a very hopeful asking price. Can I rule this one out?

The final thing I'm wondering about is how to describe condition on a piece like this - it has some wear and damage but would it still be classed as 'good' condition given its age?

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

I can't vouch for the accuracy, but an avenue to pursue -

https://www.ardesh.com/otherpp/wa6me4vo9xguzmlcisardmaxl61yro

 

Thank you yes I've seen this one but since it's unmarked (and elsewhere attributed as Chinese) I can't see why they are trying to attribute it to this Venetian pottery... just doesn't add up for me. Though I don't know what to think for the alternative ID

 

Looks like tin glazed earthenware to me, (faience, majolica, delft). Others may chime in.

 

Looks like transfer with some hand painting added.

 

Looks like early 19th century European imitating Chinese to me.

 

It's definitely all hand painted no sign of the stipling that comes with transferware. It's a much copied style in printed wares but this one is 100% by hand.

 

You have it in hand and I don't so I have no reason to doubt you. Just an opinion.

 

The body is too thin for tin glazed - I have a lot of those wares and the weight and thickness is entirely different for this. Also the glaze thickness is wrong. This glaze has a pearly iridescent quality tinged slightly green Ive never seen in tin glazed. I have a few other pieces of Chinese export porcelain and it's like that, just a touch heavier through the base. Dare I say a little more rustic? But I'm quite sure porcelain.

 

Thanks for this - do you think you could give an indication of where it might have been made or some other examples of this kind of imitative ware? Thank you !

 

My bad. I should have read through your initial post more carefully, where you addressed this particular match.

 

Chiming in. I agree, it doesn't look like porcelain. It is a beautiful plate though.

 

Thank you AJ! I think there must be something off with my photos, because I think the plate is too thin to be earthenware - I have handled thousands of plates now and have never see one in earthenware that's this thin. It does have a few oddities though including a rounded edge on it which is not the same as my other Chinese porcelain, they have a sharper feel. But honestly I think the plate body thickness rules out earthenware. Unless there's a type I'm not familiar with - I'm prepared to be enlightened!

 

It's not just the fineness of the body. Have you tried shining a strong light/torch through it? That spur mark on the underside does not look Eastern at all.

 

Aha! Of course, thank you for reminding me to do that!! And no! the light does not penetrate so perhaps it isn't porcelain after all - the torch goes straight through the Chinese export wares I was comparing it to.

So now I'm really stumped - it's really strange because it is so thin and also the glaze has that greenish cast just like the Chinese wares I have. I just can't see how an earthenware piece of this age (and it definitely has age) would last this thin! And at the chip, the body has a density that earthenware pieces don't have (they tend to have a crumbly / sandy appearance at any chips, whereas this one is very smooth and uniform). I have been reading just now that porcelain is not always translucent, and there is a blurry line between porcelain and stoneware so maybe it's still up for debate? I have found this exact plate a few times and it has always been described as porcelain by all advertisers. I just don't know enough about it to be sure.

Also, been doing a bit more searching around the Venetian maker mentioned earlier - Geminiano Cozzi - and I suppose that is another possibility. He did make imitation Imari patterns, but I can't find a documented pattern that's a match for my one, only the one being advertised at a rather high price. Also, he was using porcelain, albeit an Italian version, so likely their wares would be translucent too??

More thoughts welcome on what this is and where it came from or whether there is a specialist or forum I could approach!

 

Yeah, as I thought, it's not Chinese - and yes porcelain (and bone china) are translucent - unless very thick. Some stoneware bodies are very fine and have a tight grain, it may be an avenue to explore. I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be European as I said originally.

 

Thank you! If it isn't porcelain, I think it must be stoneware, so I'll try to research that a bit further.

Would you happen to have any idea as to which part of Europe I should be looking into? Is the UK a possibility?

 

The most likely candidates for pseudo Chinese are the UK and The Netherlands.

 

Thank you so much! I will post again if I find anything further

 

Just an update - it appears that this plate is a hybrid in materials so called 'masso bastardo' which is a greyish-toned hard paste porcelain made in the mid-late 18th century in Doccia, Italy. The tin glaze was used to hide the greyish tone of the porcelain but majes the plate opaque.

Here is one very similar in the V&A - https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O278557/plate-doccia-porcelain-factory/

I would not have found this without your thoughts on the European origins and recognition of tin glazed finish so thank you all for your help! Quite an exciting little find for me, I've never had a piece like this before and it's nice to see something new once in a while !