Featured Need Help w/IDing Antique Pima Indian Basket

hi everyone. i found this basket a few days ago. It stands approximately 8.25 inches in height and 10.5 inches across at the top from outside edge to outside edge. i believe it's pretty old and someone else that deals with these pieces said he thought 1890s. he thought it was made for tourists because of the base, which he said was unusual. i'm looking at what appears to be ground food worked into the interior in between each of the individual reeds and thinking it was actually used by Pima people in food preparation. the other reason i thought it might have been used culturally by Pima people is that it has a more conservative design to it. i'm hoping someone on this site has knowledge of Pima baskets. have you ever seen this design before? that is, with the base? could this be earlier than 1890s? also, i want to sell it. what would be a good asking price on ebay for something like this? any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks

 

That's unusual....
Pima , yes.....I believe so & the twisted fibre on the top rim , tells me pre 1900.
I am unfamiliar with the base....


this single twist is early 1900's..

You could ask around at some better SW basket dealers , or a couple of the native auction houses....

 

The base reminds me of the Ute made , Navajo wedding baskets....where u can find remnants of mush used in the ceremony....

it almost looks like an add on.............. I'm confused !!

 

that's who i initially showed this to, someone online that deals in this sort of thing. were there no Pima baskets prior to the 1890s?

 

It is an interesting basket. I agree that the materials and technique look like Pima. I suspect the base is actually a repair - the stitches do not match the work on the body of the basket. It appears to have been used for something that charred the bottom - maybe that is what happened to the original base.

 

and that's what confounds me......

 

i probably need to get a better close-up of the base from the inside. there's a lot of what i'm assuming is some sort of old food material worked into the spaces in between the reeds in that area. that's what's causing some discoloration. here's some shots of the base from the outside. also, those black stitches were my doing. when i found this there was scotch tape on the base there and it looked ugly. that outer rim is solid, but i didn't want it to move too much while its in my possession. all of those stitches can be removed easily.

 

The Akimel O'odham (Pima or River people)tribe are out of Arizona and were basket makers through the late 19th Century. They used devil's claw for their designs, local grass or cattail for the ground and ended with a gorgeous herringbone weave. (Information credited to Wikipedia).

double baskets are known...

and your new pics now make the base look more age consistent to your basket wall weaving...... but.. still the weave looks off.

I'm still flustered....... but that's OK !!!!

Nice basket !!!!!!!!!!

 

see what you think of this.....

not definitive ......

.

 

I have looked at the online collections of the Peabody Museum - https://collections.peabody.harvard...thnographic;cultureAdvTerms:Pima/table?page=1

and the National Museum of the American Indian - https://americanindian.si.edu/colle..."&edan_fq[1]=object_type:"Basket bowl"&page=0

The basic shape would be described as a bowl, but does not seem to be a real common type of Pima basket. Most are more flared, or more shallow. I found one with a pedestal -
https://americanindian.si.edu/collections-search/object/NMAI_256717

There are other online museum collections that could be searched for comparative examples.

The Pima have made baskets for thousands of years, but examples with documented dates of manufacture, or primary collection (directly from the culture of origin), are scarce. So assigning a date is usually done with broad generalizations.

 

the problem is, i don't really know what i'm looking at. this is something i'm definitely not an expert in. i just took some more pics. i think the one from the inside gives a good sense of what i'm talking about with material ground into the spaces between the reeds. also, i think the way the base is woven is similar to the pictures you've provided.

 

The basic shape would be described as a bowl, but does not seem to be a real common type of Pima basket. Most are more flared, or more shallow. I found one with a pedestal -
https://americanindian.si.edu/collections-search/object/NMAI_256717

thank you so much. at least that definitely establishes that another example of this pedestal base exists from the same period. i would have never found that.

 

Is your question directed at me?

A little hard to tell what is going on with that basket based on the 2 photos - an inner basket sitting in a sort of outer basin? I note that the rim of the "basin" is finished with the traditional herringbone stitch (and I assume the edge of the inner basket is finished in the same way). Whereas the base of Jim's basket is finished with a simple overcast stitch, different from the rim of the basket itself. This is part of what makes me think it is a repair/later addition.

Also, the demarcation between the center of the basket on the inside and the rest of the weave is very distinct -


It does not seem that a natural deposit of dirt or food substances would stop so clearly between one coil and the next. It is almost as if part of an older, used basket has been attached at the bottom.

 

One option I have considered is that the basket was originally a little mortar basket, made with an opening at the bottom and used on top of a grind stone. But I can't find any examples of mortar baskets being made or used by the Pima.

 

Another observation about the base -


See those tiny vertical stitches, just above the slightly darker coil? Those may be evidence of where the base has been attached. I believe if it was part of the original construction, the transition would be more consistent with the rest of the weave.

At any rate, while some people like irregular baskets, even those with "native repairs", most collectors seem to prefer undamaged examples.

 

no...open question....
I show the base of an older Pima basket .... for rim , base and sidewall construction....and that it's one basket woven to look like a bowl sitting on a tray...

 

there's this one too. what can be said conclusively is this type of design did exist in the 19th century. it's just no very common.

 

(That is the same one I found in the NMAI collection. Note that no date was provided for that basket.)

I have seen pedestals on some other Native American baskets, and I believe it usually indicates an adaptation to Euro-American tastes. It would not be a feature of baskets made for their own use.

 

yes, and thank you for that. note that it does have a braided top edge.

 

Jim-I'm late to this party,but have to say you've got a beautiful intriguing basket & a name I won't soon forget.