Astrolabe aka the original Smartwatch

We’ve had this astrolabe for a few years, bought from a curio shop in Helsinki.
It has some age but how much?

The writings are in Arabic, but constellations/stars are marked by crudely drawn animals on the back. It is very heavy—brass I assume— so heavy that I doubt it would’ve been made for tourist trade. If these ever were.

It has three more disks inside.

The link is to a Smithsonian Magazine about astrolabes — my title was borrowed from them.

Any comments welcome!

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/astrolabe-original-smartphone-180961981/


Edit — I think I found my answer already with Google lens. North African 19th to 20th C.

 

Congrats Finn-You're a quick draw champ on answering your own queries.Don't forget how smart you (& Google) are next time-especially at the store !

 

Didn't know there was a bedbug constellation

 

Bosko, unfortunately Google lens doesn’t work with photos saved in my Mac.

I haven’t found a way to delete a thread once posted so was hoping even asked-and-answered threads might be of interest to someone else. Plus my own answers might be wrong.

(What’s the emoji for fingers crossed?)

 

Not having seen bedbugs in close proximity, I assumed it was a crab…

There’s also one that looks like a tumbler and a few other odd symbols.

 

A fun piece, Finn. The wear is consistent with vintage rather than antique imo.

I saw quite a few of this type of astrolabe here in NL in the 60s.
I remember they were imported from Turkey, but similar ones were probably made in North Africa as well.

 

I noticed that one too. Would that be aquarius?
And the one to the right of the bedbug err... crab (Cancer), Virgo?

 

I hope all who care can read this NYT article (paywall Y/N ?).It concerns the history of another astrolabe-a 1000 yr old model w/ notations in Arabic,Hebrew & English.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/12/science/astrolabe-hebrew-arabic.html

 

Yes.

 

Hmmm… would a vintage astrolabe have actual wear? If the Smithsonian is correct, astrolabes remained popular up until the 18th century. Or are you talking about “wear” as in things buried underground to age them?

Still, while very fancy astrolabes remain today, there were likely plenty of others created for more ordinary people that have since rotten away if made of wood or gotten thrown back into the melting pot if they were made of metal, says Alexander Jones, a researcher at New York University and an expert in ancient astronomy.

“For every fancy one, there were probably many more that were functional but didn’t have the elaborate metalwork, and did the job people needed,” Jones says.

This is not a fancy one and looks much dirtier/darker in real life than in my photos taken in bright sunshine. I didn’t notice the verdigris in real life. The inner disks are very dark, too. They look like they have some honest dirt on them.

On the other hand, the astrolabe does have lathe marks so would that point to times after the Industrial Revolution? And I am bothered by the pictures of animals in something from a an Arab speaking, so supposedly Islamic,country. I assume the marks are arabic but could be e.g. Persian too. That would explain the use of live beings.

The somewhat comparable one that I found earlier doesn’t mention the extra disks that make it usable. And it has even curiouser marks for the stars.

https://www.spink.com/lot/342001068

So, all opinions still welcome.

 

Y :-(

 

Yes it would.
If it had no wear I would have said brand new.

It depends on how the Islamic person who made this astrolabe interpreted Islamic law. There are many schools of thought and interpretations. A lot of Islamic art depicts animals, and sometimes humans as well. Depicting the Prophet or his family is a different matter.

 

Yes, it is a similar style, but it has more age than yours. It is a good example to see the difference in wear.
Try to look at them side by side. Now look at the edges of every part. See how the edges on the one in the link are nicely rounded and smooth? They look very tactile. Yours is in the process of acquiring that look, but it isn't quite there yet.

The one in the link is also more detailed, I especially love the top 'triangle'. That could be due to a better craftsperson, but often the older ones are more 'worked'.
That said, yours is certainly a nice and fun piece.

 

Copy link, paste and search in google, click on link, worked for me

 

I'll report back when my energy level is up to that.

 

https://www.spink.com/lot/342001068

I’d very respectfully disagree about the edge. I don’t think you can see the edge of the astrolabe in the photo. Mine is worn out and rounded though it doesn’t look so in the photo.

 

Nope, doesn’t work for me. Cleaning caches etc doesn’t work either, nor incognito.

Edit. Okay, just searching for astrolabe and NYT worked.
Interesting coincidence —I hadn’t seen the article before posting mine.
ESP?

 

I can find all of the zodiac constellations as we still know them in the West. A bit surprised that the Arabic speaking world would use the same ones.

Maybe the depiction of a constellation does not violate any prohibition on depicting living things?

 

It does, I can see it. It is just not as worn and rounded as the other one imo. Try to look closely at both photos again.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with yours, there isn't. I'm just being truthful here, take it or leave it.

I was taught what to look for on antique metal at a tender age by my father who was a metallurgy historian/archaeologist, and it was a bit of a game for us to spot natural wear etc.
That doesn't mean I am infallable, and I am no metallurgy historian myself, but it does mean that I have ca 60 years of hands on experience, and a long experience of judging photos.