Featured 1500s or 1600s portrait of a woman (Mary Queen of Scots?)

Discussion in 'Art' started by Wavedecanter, Jan 12, 2024.

  1. Wavedecanter

    Wavedecanter Member

    So this painting is quite interesting. I bought it from it's previous owner, it had been in his family for a couple of centuries, brought over from Ireland generations ago. He was unable to tell me factically who the sitter is, though he speculated.

    I believe it is of a young Mary Queen of Scots but it is little more than an inkling. The writing featured isn't clear, as if written over.

    She holds a hand fan which where in vogue around the period (1500s/1600s?)

    Sorry about the horrible pictures.

    The painting seems to be on canvas which has been mounted on another newer canvas, probably from the 18th century.

    I would like to take it to London if I ever go back, but it's not on the cards right now (I reside on the butt end of the world aka Argentina)

    It's about 90cm in height I believe

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  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    the writing should help identify her...
     
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  3. mirana

    mirana Well-Known Member

    Hmm wrong hat style for Mary. It also doesn't include the word "Regina" (Queen) which you would expect.

    I want to say she looks more like a Spanish lady to me. D. Maria. De. La. L/S D V. Is. Colon. v. ?? I would really like to see those letters without glare. The middle bit is especially important since it would be her surname.
     
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  4. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Better quality photographs of the lettering would help but I too see D. Maria which would identify her as a noble woman but not a queen.

    Debora
     
  5. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    And a photograph of the back would be helpful too.

    Debora
     
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  6. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    I'm sure you know, living in Argentina as you do, that Colon is Spanish for Columbus. He did have a granddaughter named Maria (b. 1510.)

    Debora
     
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  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I agree, not Mary Queen of Scots. Mary had auburn hair, just like her cousin Elizabeth, and her cheeks weren't as round as this lady's.
    This lady's face and her black clothing look Spanish to me.
    She is holding a folding fan, which became popular towards the end of the 16th century, a little earlier in Italy and Spain, ca 1550s.
    It is impossible to see if it is a fan of the period, because it is closed, but I would assume it is indeed a late 16th century folding fan.

    Fans as such had always been popular, but those were rigid fans with a handle (on a stick), often feather fans.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2024
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  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    1510 means ca 1530 when this portrait was painted. The fan is later.
    Maybe Maria's niece, named after her?
     
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  9. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    It looks to me like:
    D. Maria Dela Dues Colon
    (D for Donna?)
    00000ca.jpg
     
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  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Doña, if it is Spanish.
     
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  11. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Doña. "Lady" but an honorific, not an inherited or noble title like in England.

    Debora
     
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  12. sabre123

    sabre123 Well-Known Member

    Attempted to give some life to the washed out pic:

    gxll8n5.jpg
     
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  13. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Doña Maria Delae Dues Colón ?

    Colón is in Panama.
     
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  14. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Think that's DV ES rather than DUES.

    Debora
     
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  15. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I think the fashion dates from ca 1580, what do you think @Debora ?
     
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  16. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    I don't know enough about that period's costumes to opine. Do know that Philip II banned ruffs in 1621 and very similar to the one Queen Elizabeth wears here in c. 1575 portrait.

    Debora

    440px-Elizabeth_I_Darnley_portrait_crop.jpg
     
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  17. mirana

    mirana Well-Known Member

    An aside to all this amazing sleuthing...

    @Wavedecanter You may realize, but your lady is in great need of cleaning and restoration. She needs a clean, varnish removal, an overpaint assessment and removal (that's probably what going on with those letters....done when it was re-lined), the relining removed, the painting heat treated to flatten out the stretcher pressure marks, new lining or lining edges done, possible retouch, re-varnish, and re-stretch.

    Otherwise it will continue to come away from the re-lining and that, plus stretcher pressure, will cause the paint to crack further...leading to loss.

    She has a lot of detail and may be a historical person of interest who doesn't have many, or any, portraits other than this one. I hope we can identify her!
     
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  18. Wavedecanter

    Wavedecanter Member

    Thank you all so much.
    A few points

    I will take better pictures but given the state of the painting currently (darkened and dirty) they won't be that much more revealing.

    The painting did arive here from Ireland in the early 1800s, the stretcher is british/of british wood from what I was told.
    This does not mean the portrait is not of spanish origin but it makes it less likely.

    There is a numer 17 at the end of the writing (apparently), surely the age of the sitter. The last word which would appear to be Colon probably is one related to expressing her age.

    The writing is not clear, there seems to be writing written over writing.

    I would love to have this painting cared for but it is currently out of my range of what I could pay, for it to be done professionally. I would look into selling it at auction sooner rather than later in England, partly with the hope that a new owner could take care of it properly.
    I will see what to do
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2024
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  19. Wavedecanter

    Wavedecanter Member

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2024
  20. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    D. is the abbreviation for Don or Doña depending on the gender of the person being addressed. It translates to "Sir" or "Lady." On your painting, it indicates the sitter is a noble woman. (That's already clear, of course, by her costume which signifies wealth.)

    A few points back...

    We would still appreciate a photograph of the back and close-up photographs of any labels, stickers or handwritten notations. The back of a painting can sometimes provide helpful information as to origin, date, provenance, etc.

    Unless you have documentation, a connection to Ireland can't be proven and as the legend is in Spanish, it would seem unlikely especially as Argentina is a former colony of Spain.

    I wouldn't assume the number 17 is the sitter's age. (That would be highly unusual. I, for one, have never seen a portrait where the sitter's age was given on the front.) It's more likely an inventory number.

    There does appear to be overwriting which makes it difficult/impossible to read the full legend. However, D. Maria _______ Colon is clear. Colon, of course, is a Spanish surname and that of Cristóbal Colón or Christopher Columbus as he's known in English.

    If you would like to explore a connection to Columbus, would you like to be provided with the name of a museum dedicated to the explorer than might/might not be able to confirm a connection? Institutions aren't always willing or able to help but they're a good avenue to explore nevertheless.

    Debora
     
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