Antique Delft-Type Plates - Dutch ?

I've got a small collection of older Delft items and have recently been given the opportunity to acquire a pair of old Delft type plates. They measure c. 24cm in diameter and I would estimate that are probably no later than 18th century. One of the plates bears the letters N:Z: on the base - which is not listed on a Dutch Delft factory mark list I downloaded from the net.

I was wondering if anyone could identify the likely country of origin. The painting style is quite distinctive, so I thought that it might provide a clue.

Thank you in advance for any help.

 

Just curious -- why do you think they are no later than 18th c?

 

Agree, not Delfts, the decoration is more basic. Nice addition to delft style ceramics though.

 

To me these look French and early to mid 19th century from the bases. In the UK we would call them faience or tin glaze.

 

I once saw advertised a plate with a very similar 'rounded' base, which was advertised as being from the early 18th century - perhaps incorrectly ?

 

Your comments are both welcome and appreciated.
Thanks for increasing my limited knowledge in this particular area of collecting !

 

It's not just the base shape, it's the form of the spurs and the way the glaze has covered. But the decoration is perhaps the most important factor, check out the collections in the V&A Museum (it's online) you can see items which are accurately dated in quite good detail. This helps a lot in getting an appreciation of period items.

Yup, unless it's from a trustworthy source then this means very little unfortunately.

 

I found several Delft marks that, while they don't match yours, all have the colon : type mark between the letters as yours does. From the little I picked up, it is often the artist name who painted it & only done in 17th century or so Delft ware. I'm wondering if yours might not be an early Delft piece afterall??



The Two Wild Men (De Twee Wildemans), 1661-1788


The Old Moor’s Head (Het Oude Moriaenshooft), 1690

Both from
https://thepotterywheel.com/delft-pottery-marks/

I haven't seen this technique of signing things anywhere else, but maybe it was time period rather than Delft? In any event I'm just wondering if it's the artist name rather than a company name?

 

Interesting, Eleanor, and welcome.

The owner of 'int oude moriaanshooft'*, Geertruy Verstelle (GVS) wrote in the Delft municipal marksbook that she marked her goods that way (with her initials).

*'int oude Moriaanshooft' means 'in the old Moors head'. Buildings in the Netherlands used to have names.
Similarly, 'de twee wildemans' would have been the name of the building, rather than the company. The owner of the pottery was Willem van Beek, hence W: V: B:.

If that was the way these owners marked their goods, N: Z: P: could also be the initials of an owner, either in Delft or elsewhere.
I suspect these initial-signing potteries were all very small businesses rather than actual factories. Maybe a single potter-painter, hence the lesser quality.

 

Stift, this is the link to 1764 register of potters in the town archives of Delft:
https://zoeken.stadsarchiefdelft.nl/detail.php?id=10342284

I'm not sure your mark is in there, I don't even know it is from Delft, but you can take a look. If you've found it, you can show me the page and I'll translate it for you.

Edit: I was curious, so checked the entire register, it isn't in there.

 

Thank you all very much for your exhaustive research.
When I have a little more free time, I'll restart my search.