LIMOGES ARTIST OR HOBBYEST: A QUESTION

A person on reddit was asking a Question on the Antiques forum, about a Painted plate, signed by a 'Belle Steele'.

link : https://www.reddit.com/r/Antiques/comments/107zp4b/trying_to_determine_the_first_name_of_the_artist/

Belle Steele, shows up as a painter on a number of Signed & Marked Limoges Pieces.

This piece is signed, but not marked..

Is it most likely:

1. Painted by a hobbyist, who has painted on other Marked Limoges Blanks, and Not Limoges.
2. Painted by an artist who works for Limoges companies, and Not Limoges.
3. Painted by an artist who works for Limoges companies, and is Limoges that is Unmarked for some reason.

COLLECTION: https://i.imgur.com/I9xyqxq.jpg

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A collection of some pieces Associated with the Paintings of Belle Steele:
Minton & Elite Limoges

https://i.imgur.com/I9xyqxq.jpg​

Links to Pieces signed by BELLE STEELE
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Minton Limoges
Pierced Border Lady with a Dog Plate
1880 - 1891
Signed by Belle Steele



https://blog.xuite.net/rwlimoges/twblog/159784125



Elite SM Limoges:

Hand-Painted Dresser Tray
Elite SM Limoges France
Signed Belle Steele 1897

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1085214019/hand-painted-dresser-tray-choose-from



Unmarked:

LIMOGES FRANCE CUSTARD CUPS
ROSES & GOLD GILD
Signed BELLE STEELE 1906

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/limoges-france-custard-cups-roses-1813065231​

 

Hobbyist. It was a very popular hobby here in the states. Many of the blanks were not marked by the manufacturer but many others were.

 

Thanks.

 

Could you tell me what would signify the difference between work that would be put out by a Limoges Company artist and a Hobbyist, other than Skill (because this person is obviously pretty skilled).

 

There is another version of the "Painting with the lady and her dog here":

https://www.1stdibs.com/en-gb/furniture/dining-entertaining/dinner-plates/minton-framed-cabinet-plate-italianate-gilt-lady-forest-aboullemier-1882

LINK: IMG
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Done by Minton in 1882. Painted by the Well known porcelain artist, Antonin Boullemier​

 

Ive told this story before but its appropriate for this thread. When I lived in St. Pete Fl in the mid 80s about 2 blocks from my apartment was a club of china painters. Once a year they would have a sale,and you could go and buy some beautiful china for almost pennies. Some of those old dears were amazingly talented.I think the "names" on finer china were renowned in their field wich is why their work is sought after. But I think the majority of china painters were just everyday people working in a factory .Rare were the super stars of china painters.

 

An artist employed by a manufacturer would do a much neater job of their signature and rarely includes a date.

Please show me where Belle Steele signed the lady and her dog plate. I do not see it. And what I can see, appears to be a name that starts with an M?

FYI - Limoges is a place, not a company.

 

Which intamates that she must have had access to the original plate by

Thanks for replying: So you think that the hobbyist Duplicated, this plate..

Plate link: Link

 

That link does not connect to the picture of the plate.

 

No - hobbyists do not duplicate their work. They may paint multiple pieces of a set, but not for the purpose of sale.

 

Show me where a signature by "Belle Steele" signed that Minton plate.

 

The links to all photos are included above, including the closeup of this Signature:
https://blog.xuite.net/rwlimoges/twblog/159784125




Here is the Minton in 1882 Antonin Boullemier version

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That close up appears to be a different version of the center decoration. It is possible that "Belle Steele" did some embellishment of a Minton plate. The first image of this plate that is upper left in your first post is different from the others. The lady's dress is different, the surrounding vegetation is vastly different and if you look closely at the lower edges of her dress you should see lettering in red, starting with an M, that appears to be a signature.

 

Here is a closeup of the Dress: There is no obvious signature, other than the Belle Steele signature. Can you pinpoint Exactly what you think you are seeing..


https://i.imgur.com/kXYfkCf.png

 

The closeup cleared up what I was seeing as letters - it's the dark red foliage that crosses over the lower part of the dress. So what we have is a single case of someone signing the name Belle Steele on a fancier painting job on a Minton plate. The other pictures of similarly decorated Minton plates attached don't have a "Belle Steele" signature.

What exactly are you trying to prove?