No idea what this is?

Discussion in 'Tribal Art' started by Jeff Drum, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    This was mixed in with some old tobacco pipes, mostly European. I can't see how it could be a pipe unless a lot of parts are missing, which is certainly possible. Thought maybe it was a flute but can't get it to make a sound. Not antique, based on appearance I don't think it is older than 3rd, 4th quarter 20th century. Collector had Native American and Asian (Japanese) items, I can imagine it being either, or neither. Top of wood container does not come off, opens to allow access but stays attached with string. Looks like the remains of a paper sticker on the base of the squash/fruit. Stick piece is 8-1/2 inches, squash is 4 inches.

    Does anyone have any clues?
    P4241283.JPG P4241284.JPG P4241285.JPG P4241287.JPG P4241288.JPG P4241290.JPG P4241296.JPG P4241295.JPG
     
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  2. Dawnno

    Dawnno Well-Known Member

    no experience in this area, but my stab in the dark is it looks like a cleaning tool of some kind. Think of the long piece as a 'shoe horn' through which a pipe cleaner or thin rod is inserted into the 'hole end' and guided to the other end which is inserted into an opening... supposition only. I would imagine that older pipes could be broken or cracked, so to ream something out, it would take a bit of force and you didn't want to 'jar' any thing. Just a guess. There's no wear around the tip though, so maybe not a tool, a temporary stand? insert the object into the hole to hold it in a cantilevered position temporarily... that way you can hold the container and end down at the same time. EXPERT HELP please!

    The container might have held a cloth, cleaning implement, tobacco? It has the design of a plum, so wondering if that's meaningful. And the bead strikes me as very netsuke like.

    Not native american. I can be sure its a thing with a hole next to a penny and quarter.
     
  3. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    well that's neat !!!!
    looks like it may have the long part slide into a belt or sash...to keep the gourd on one's person......but I'm just spitballing...
    the grove and hole in the long piece looks like it may have been for measuring ...or applying.......????
     
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  4. Dawnno

    Dawnno Well-Known Member

    upload_2019-4-24_15-26-43.jpeg could the depression be to hold the 'foot' of a colonial pipe? a handy holder to prevent the pipe from rotating? Somebody is about to post: "you fools, itza ..."
     
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  5. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    I think the container may represent an eggplant or aubergine, as another guess. Judging by the leaves, which would be unlike a plum, though might possibly be found on a squash. (I know they are not really leaves, but the remains of the blossom; but I forget what they are called - calyx?)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  6. Dawnno

    Dawnno Well-Known Member

    so, being intrigued along this line of inquiry, English clay pipes were still in use in 1868. That's virtually industrial age era... and so... I turn to the turnings inside the plum/eggplant case... that's a wood turning by lathe that looks very 19th C to me.
    https://www.etsy.com/listing/570695818/antique-taxidermy-peaseware-treenware

    So, maybe as early as mid 19th C clay pipe stem manual support to prevent inadvertent breakage while cleaning the business end?
     
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  7. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    It strikes me as a lone mala bead:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  9. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    Rudraksha seeds are commonly used in Mala beads, associated with Hinduism; might point to Laos, Nepal?
    untitled.jpg
     
  10. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    I'm interested in the way the lid of the gourd shaped receptacle is allowed to open to such a small degree & in the keyhole shape depression at the one end of the long piece - why isn't it symmetrical?

    Is the other side of the long piece rounded with no other grooves, etc.? Are the ends closed or open?
     
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  11. Dawnno

    Dawnno Well-Known Member

    Sepals.

    And, I'm now changing direction altogether, too, especially now that I've seen the posts above: Sewing needle case/egg darner with bodkin/yarn/ribbon threader? Not much to do with Tea though.
     
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  12. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    My first reaction was that the long piece looked like a tea scoop, but quickly had to abandon that, for obvious reasons. It looks to me as though you don't use the two parts with each other, even though they are both presumably used in the same activity. They are tethered together too tightly. The container looks designed for something small you don't want to spill, like snuff. However the other piece is used, it would have to be in a way that does not upend the container.

    In a general way, it is designed like a Japanese inro; it could be worn/carried by tucking into a sash or belt.

    Let's ask @Any Jewelry
     
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  13. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    i've had some experience with these....& I'm not seeing it....

    upload_2019-4-24_17-13-21.gif

    upload_2019-4-24_17-14-4.jpeg
     
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  14. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    And once the sepals are dried up on the fruit, calyx, I think...

    Lots of good guesses, but none of them feel quite right yet, including my own....
    (We always have fun guessing though!)
     
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  15. Dawnno

    Dawnno Well-Known Member

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  16. Dawnno

    Dawnno Well-Known Member

    And of course, Herr Spitballer there, probably nailed it. The tea ceremony uses *powdered* tea - so the black thing is a measuring spoon. ERRRRRRR, curse you Red Baron.

    Haven't seen one online, but it's feeling more 'right' to me as we move along.

    Amazing job AF, i think you nailed the key.

    Edit: Bronwen agreed with komokwa so kudos there too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  17. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    looks good from here too.......... but was dat udder thing.....????
     
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  18. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    it just seems the grove would hold the tea....then slide it along thru the hole....& I would guess it takes time be be good at that.........
    like rolling your own.........kinda!
     
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  19. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    I can only see this working at all - & then not exactly how - if the cord is just long enough to allow the container to be swung up above the groove with the lid open enough to make a controlled pouring of the contents into the channel. I wouldn't be able to do this with only 2 hands, I don't think.
     
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  20. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

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