Date Code Help Please

Thank you!

 

1770. Although the illustration in the date letter table below seems to show a third fillip extending out from the upright line, 1770 is the only one that fits the maker (which you already know) and also has the proper shape cartouche.

http://www.925-1000.com/dlc_london.html

Awesome to see it with out excessive wear.

 

Thank you. That's what had me confused, the number of fillips weren't matching up. I thought something might have been wrong.

 

Baker and others,

Given the fine quality, hallmarks, scratch numbered marks on base, dates (1770 & 1802) and LARGE beautifully engraved coat of arms on both these beakers, one can safely "assume" these were commissioned pieces by the Duke & Earl and/or their courts correct?

*John Russell, 4th Duke of Bedford (1710 - 1771).

*John Campbell, 4th Earl of Breadalbane and Holland (1762 - 1834)

 

I'm really not in a position to opine on your question, 'Nuff. But perhaps AF could. He may have more relevant experience in such things.

 

Oh, yeah, all the old dead British nobility were dear, dear chums of mine.

As for your heraldic bits and pieces, it was the usual practice to have everything for the house (only Royals had 'courts') marked with the appropriate crest simply to stop them walking away in guest's pockets. A bit of swank, certainly, but also a lot of utility.

This meant that a huge number of items big and small would be monogrammed and crested, in a houshold like Woburn, the size of a large village. The elaboration of the engraving might give an idea of how close these items came to the top table but in themselves such items do not automatically indicate personal use or special regard by the holder of the arms.

 

That's exactly the kind of perspective I was thinking you might be able to provide, AF.

And do say hello to the Queen for me.

 

PS Unfashionable or worn items would suffer the same fate as any household objects, they'd be recycled, given away or sold or stuffed in the attic.

The 'attic sales' of some British country houses have been wonders of the age for auctioneeers and antique dealers. 200 years worth of dusty tat is not at all unusual.

 

That's exactly the kind of perspective I was thinking you might be able to provide, AF.

And do say hello to the Queen for me.

Nearest I can get is my partner who has met her twice and been to the palace for an investiture.

 

I once was stricken with an investiture but a trip to the doc and a bottle of Malox took care of it.

 

Thanks Baker and AF.

Understandable... But this piece bearing the arms of John Russell, 4th Duke of Bedford most likely means it was a commissioned order by his house and probably once graced it correct?

Below is an image of the arms on my beaker and a link to a latter (1802) silver piece by a different maker, bearing the arms of the 6th Duke of Bedford.

Link: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/14240/lot/201/

 

Que sera, sera? What will be, will be?