Featured Unique Looking Book Found @ Flea Market in Spain

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Niczn, Oct 30, 2022.

  1. Niczn

    Niczn Member

    I stumbled upon this small book hidden amongst many others at a local flea market, the seller explained it could be between 150 - 200 years old but she also admitted she didn't know all that much about it's origin. The pages are filled with cursive text in what I believe to be Latin or similar. On some pages there are odd symbols and even an '@' - I'm told the '@' was first documented in 1536 which could make sense because the cover of this book has what I believe is 1582 on the front.

    The seller also explained the text on the backside of the skin / cover could be of particular importance, however it is folded and stitched over making the text quite difficult to read. (see photo four from top) There were also two small folded pages with further writing.

    If there are any latin, writing or language experts out there, I would love to know more about what the text says, sadly I just can't make out many of the words in order to try translate online.

    I look forward to hearing from any experts!
    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 7.jpg
     
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  2. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    From what I can see, the language is Catalan. Did you buy it in Catalunya?

    I think it was written @ a later date, it also mentions 1605. It could recount something that happened in the 16th century.
     
  3. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    I have tried putting some of the words on the cover into Google translate, which also identifies it as Catalan.

    Conta de ? pagos feu per Monjas

    Account ____ payments made by Nuns

    The cover was made by reusing a piece of parchment with unrelated text on one side (turned to the inside of the cover). It is written in an older style of calligraphy. It was not unusual for older parchments to be reused in this way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
  4. Niczn

    Niczn Member


    -----

    I did ask if it was Catalan or Mallorquín and thats when I was told Latin instead but I agree that my first and current instinct is Catalan. I wish I could read it!
     
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  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It isn't Latin, I would have recognized it as such. The seller probably didn't know Catalan.
     
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  6. Niczn

    Niczn Member


    I'm certain the sellers were Mallorquin as I bought it in Mallorca, but good to know it's not latin, what do you make of the symbols on the 2nd photo from the bottom at the bottom of the page?
     
  7. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    The older text on the inside of the cover parchment is in Latin.
     
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  8. Niczn

    Niczn Member

    Good to know! I will carefully take a look to see what I can reveal and translate.
     
  9. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    Late to this, but it's absolutely Catalan. I can speak a little and read a bit, but the writing is old. Whilst this would upset Mallorquins, the language on the islands and mainland is almost identical.

    I don't think the older text is Latin, it has Js in it.
     
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  10. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    This is what I can make-out of the text at the top of the third photo. (If others can read it better, please correct me.)

    "Memoria con lo dia de X martique conptam a 12 de noembre del ano 1380 prenguin possesia dela capillamia que tinch ala feu de..."

    Google Translate recognizes the language as Catalan and translates it as...

    "Memory with the day of X martique we count on November 12 of the year 1380 take possession of the capillamia that I have in the fief of..."

    The above reads as some sort of personal diary or account book entry.

    Debora
     
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  11. Niczn

    Niczn Member


    I've started to try and break down each word but I'm certainly no expert in fonts! So far all I've got from photo five is "I say amen" - It's definitely a piece of history I just hope I can translate it!
     
  12. Niczn

    Niczn Member



    So glad you managed to translate some of it! It's so fascinating seeing the words come to life, thanks for taking the time to respond!
     
    Debora likes this.
  13. Niczn

    Niczn Member

    Here are more photos of pages within the book, if anyone is interested in trying to translate I would really appreciate it - As you can tell I'm super invested! 9.jpg 10.jpg 11.jpg 12.jpg 13.jpg 14.jpg
     
  14. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    That doesn't mean they can read or even speak Catalan, the ban on Catalan culture during most of the Franco regime took its toll. Besides, living in Mallorca doesn't mean that one is Mallorquin.
    Yes, it is Catalan, more precisely Balearic Catalan.
    Every language has its dialects and sub-groups. For instance, I speak a Brabant-influenced form of Dutch, but it is still Dutch (eh!).
     
  15. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    That person's handwriting is as bad as mine, so good luck.:playful:
     
  16. Niczn

    Niczn Member


    This was sent by a good friend of mine who is very well educated in Philology.

    "My God, this is a treasure!!! An amazing book for a museum. It is an early Catalan (Romance). That means so close to Latin. Is an "incunable", which means an original text in "papiro". It has Gothic handwriting and is not easy to translate, but I'll look at it properly to try it. Just a great find and I'm so impressed was for sale!"
     
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  17. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I am glad he is excited, and could tell you more about it, however:
    All Romance languages are related to Latin. This isn't closer to Latin than say Provençal.
    An incunable is the first printed book from the early days of book printing by hand, this is handwritten.

    The handwriting isn't Gothic.
     
  18. Niczn

    Niczn Member


    Well thanks, rather defensive response but I'll let him know he's wrong..
     
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  19. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    defensive...... not really.....just what she knows to be true !;)

    iff on the other hand your friend can back up his statements.......we are always ready to have an open mind and learn new things !:):):)
     
  20. Niczn

    Niczn Member

    I'm not here for a debate, rather various inputs of information to build a narrative to the book. So far he has translated most of the key parts which turned out to be contracts regarding land, one of which was signed by the bishop of Mallorca in 1580.

    Hopefully I will have more in the coming days.
     
    2manybooks likes this.
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