Featured Ivory sign

Hi everyone,

Someone knows what or who is 'Seli .Fram'?

It appears on an ivory triptych offered to me, on what appears to be a signature.

My Google searches have been unsuccessful.

I would appreciate any help.

Best wishes!

 

I found this:
Lot-Art | S. XX. Firmada "SELI FRAM". Con certificado CITES. Medidas:...
described as ivory, with CITES certificate....but I'm afraid neither this nor your item looks like ivory to me; seems more like a cast ceramic type item.
And this LARGE ANTIQUE RELIGIOUS IVORY CRUCIFIX, SELI FRAM - Jun 22, 2008 | Austin Auction Gallery in TX (liveauctioneers.com)
also described as ivory, so maybe so.

 

The Seli. Fram pieces I find on the internet are described as marble, sometimes dyed.

Debora

 

Also:

https://www.subastasimperio.com/lot.aspx?id=301492&lote=Escuela+española,+S.+XIX.

https://www.subastasimperio.com/lot...ado+de+antigüedad.+Peso:+579g.+Altura:+40cm.+

This is the Drouot listing for the Madonna & Child at the Lot-Art link:

https://uk.drouot.com/l/17319724--virgen-con-nino-jesus-flanque

 

Pentatych..... = 5

 

This appears to be the same piece:
https://en.todocoleccion.net/religi...-seli-fram-siglo-xix-documentacion~x344181203

It seems something funny is going on in Spain. Compare your figure of the Madonna and Child with this one, which is not attributed to "Seli Fram". I realize iconography can be similar, but look particularly at how the the drapery is executed:

https://www.todocoleccion.net/antiguedades/triptico-sobremesa-talla-marfil~x165174230

 

It's not funny if they're copied from the same primary image. I see this all the time with cameos. Wonder whether 'Seli. Fram' could have been a workshop rather than an individual.

Here's another example of this kind of tabletop devotional piece, from the other end of the story:

https://bid.bertolamifineart.com/au...he-passion-of-christ-.-a-carved-iv_1E34635BD3

 

exactly the same....

@Tristan334 ....r u buying or selling ?????

it helps to let us know this , before we spend our time on it.......

 

I am a collector of religious ivory pieces. I don’t sell.

But it is clear that the salesman has sent me the same photos he has posted on that website.

Anyway, I’m just asking if anyone knows what or who is Seli.Fram. That’s all. Any more.

I apologize if, in spite of everything, someone feels has wasted his time. That was never my intention.

 

I never said wasted......don't get defensive !

When we start finding the same item on multiple sites it raises questions.....so it becomes important to know if the item is yours...or if a seller is offering it to you.

 

Can't imagine what Seli. Fram abbreviates but, in bold caps, certainly doesn't look like an antique mark to my eye.

Debora

 

In spite of the appearance, I can't believe that any of these are either old, or actual carvings in either ivory or marble. This is not what a carved marble or ivory sculpture should look like; note the darker shaded areas are intended to give the appearance of age, but are too uniform; they have been applied everywhere there is a fold in the drapery, and in every groove or hollow.
Another significant fact is that in the on-line examples above, sellers are unable to agree on what the material is; some calling it ivory, some calling it marble. But for an actual carving in ivory or marble, once you have it in hand, there can be no doubt. Ivory looks like ivory, has Schreger lines; marble looks like marble, has characteristic veining. None of the examples above, including in the original post, seem to have any of these details. They are just uniform in surface texture and shading.
I think these are modern factory-made cast items, possibly slip-cast ceramic or resin; and if so, are modern decor items, not old religious carvings.
Sorry to be such a skeptic.

 

Compare the shading in the slip-cast ceramics below; they are not as sophisticated, and more glossy, than the seli.fram items; but note the uniformity of the shading. This is not the actual product of age, but an applied finish.

 

I'd be suspicious as well. Sellers can't agree on material, age or origin.

Debora

 

I saw similar pieces, only Romanesque style, in France in the 80s. They were resin, but nice quality. I bought a few small 'altar pieces' from the Little Sisters of Jesus (an order of French-Algerian origin), who attended the Gypsy pilgrimage in southern France. They can't have cost much, it was more of a sympathy buy.

 

Exactly. And the difficulty in finding details is not what one encounters when searching for actual artists, or actual antiques; for those, one finds online references; collectors guidebooks; collectors clubs.
But this is precisely what one finds when researching a modern decor item. There are no collector's guides for the items found in the import shops; and usually, no online catalogs from the manufacturers.
And as AJ relates, it is entirely possible that shops in France or Italy or Serbia now sell, or recently sold, these items (and for me, 80s would count as recent). Nice-looking, well-done; but not ivory, and not old.

 

I'm not very skilled at photo enhancement, so this is my best shot at showing detail from one of the Subastas Imperio listings from my earlier post:



They do describe it as having been 'inked'.

 

Just exploring:

 

I agree that all of these carvings seem suspect. The "signature" is unusually obtrusive, if nothing else. The only other occurrence of "fram" I can find is in Scandinavian languages, where it has the meaning of "forward" and similar words. "Seli" is similarly elusive. If it is an abbreviation I can only think of Seligman as a possibility - maybe Scandinavian, German, or Yiddish.

Most of the Seli. Fram carvings are attributed to the 19th century. An article in the Encyclopedia Britannica on ivory carving notes that in the West:
"In the 19th century, ivory came into prominence once more, chiefly for making forgeries of older, more valuable ivory objects."

 

That one does look like ivory.