Ignorant Owner

Discussion in 'Furniture' started by Robbin, Dec 19, 2021.

  1. Pat Dennis

    Pat Dennis Active Member

    With my limited funds, I'll never be a collector. I'd say I am an admirer of the fine arts/antiques who loves to read books and visit museums.

    The Dupont Collection sale should have many amazing pieces. While I follow online, you might find an opportunity for another "legit steal". With the Foo-Foo crowd being haute purest, you hopefully will have a chance to add to your collection. Oh, the joys of the hunt!!!

    Were these Winter shows ever referred to as the Armory Antique Shows? If so, I think I used to see articles in the magazine, Arts and Antiques. The shows were also big social events if my memory still serves.
     
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  2. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Still are in a way, the Winter Show is held at the Park Avenue Armory in NYC.
    This is kind of a BIG DEAL in the Art & Antique world, many social functions surround this show & various sales in NYC.
    I suspect it's not what it was in years past with the fruitcake mayor in charge now, thankfully on his way out & the virus thingy as well.
     
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  3. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    LOL, Yes, one of the BEST parts of collecting, no doubt.
     
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  4. Jeff Drum

    Jeff Drum Well-Known Member

    I have to say I've never come across the designation "Charles II" in describing American furniture, though of course it is used for English furniture all the time. I suppose it doesn't hurt to call it that, but since it is not in common usage it doesn't convey much information. American furniture usually goes from "Jacobean" or "Pilgrim" to "William and Mary". Using accepted naming convention, your table is correctly described as William and Mary and not the earlier Jacobean (which is much heavier, etc). See here for examples and why this is done https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/will/hd_will.htm "American furniture of the early colonial period generally falls into two stylistic categories: the Seventeenth-Century style (1620–90) and the Early Baroque, or William and Mary, style (1690–1730)." or https://www.worthpoint.com/articles/collectibles/american-antique-furniture-styles "After taking into account what might be called “regional influences”—meaning the Colonies—the style itself is essentially “Jacobean,” that catch-all Latin term referring to England in the time of King James I, Charles I, the Commonwealth, the Restoration, Charles II and James II. In other words, most of the 17th century until William and Mary came along, circa. 1688. The furniture was blocky, big, solid, dark and ungainly, mostly made of oak—just like at home."

    Also, the most likely reason for a lack of interest wasn't the replaced table top, because that is considered an unfortunate but pretty common fault for early furniture like this. The larger issue is the other replaced pieces: the decorative brackets and drops. These decorative pieces would likely not be restored if this piece turned up today because there is insufficient evidence to know what was there back when the piece was complete. But I understand why you are not removing them, given it's documentation and provenance with these additions. Unfortunately this is a catch 22 with collecting furniture that was restored early in the 20th century. Over restoring pieces was common then - just look at the number of times early painted furniture was stripped of original paint (shudder).
     
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  5. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    As usual, a sensational snatch. I am in complete awe of your skill. I can imagine you searching down the important sales and ferreting out the best targets. This is a fantastic table, though, I am not able to appreciate it like @Pat Dennis, I can applaud you in my own way.
     
  6. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    Only camping for two months. Getting permits, bids, and supervising contractors, etc. for the rest of the time. Doing some of the work myself too. My project is stalled right now due to materials being delayed, so have time to play and read that long and excellent post on the cupboard. Fascinating. Did you decide to have it painted?
     
  7. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    No, have not, made some inquiries is all, I never rush into the restoration of important pieces. Plus, some dealers have advised me not to as the "wood" look is preferred by many at the moment should I decide to sell.:confused:

    Yeah, I hear you, painful these days doing any kind of building project, all the way around the corner.:eek::oops:

    I think so too, the form (square) is rare in America as is the Hi-Lo stretcher configuration. The provenance alone was worth what I paid, a good deal.:)

    Here is a similar form table at the MET,
    Ex. Eugene Bolles, Gift of Mrs. Russell Sage, 1909
    Replaced top, drawer & drawer runner, C 1680-1700

    bolles table sage 1909.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  8. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    The Hi-Lo stretcher thingy is peculiar and, not very practical for a table as your legs/ feet are blocked from resting under the table. One of those mid-17th century English designs that didn't work out, probably why it's so rare here!:hilarious:
     
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  9. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    I hope the OP, @Robbin , returns some day to see the replies!
     
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  10. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    The unpainted version is lovely but not interesting.
     
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  11. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    That's so fine too. My 1920's mahogony Sligh spool bed and dresser follow those kinds of decorative lines but with much bigger turnings. I have a great affection for the look. You stole that table.
     
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  12. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    LOL, yeah, there was supposed to be a FEW pieces and OP offered more info if requested but POOF! That happens here, not sure why, perhaps OP found a better source? didn't like what they heard here? who knows? and now the thread has wandered far away!:writer:
     
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  13. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Well, there are those on this & other forums who would disagree with you, trust me. Ditto dealers, who sell high-end EA for a living.
    If I decide to keep it I probably will have the paint restored because I agree the paint is fabulous & highlights all those architectural details very well.
    Still, the cupboard has a wonderful presence in person, even stripped.:happy:

    Of course I stole it! It's what I do and, I am pretty damn good at it too!:p
     
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  14. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    This is what happens when you go camping for 8 months out of the year.:eek:
    You miss out on period EA Bobbin turned tables! :oops::p:hilarious:

    Another angle. The original drawer is side hung which I didn't ask about before the sale but wanted to, the less said the better kinda thing but, I was very happy to see that early feature when it arrived.

    drawer (1).jpg
     
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  15. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    It is certainly beautiful, but this reminds me of the missing birds in the post about your table. An artist's vision is just that. Recently, I went to Immersive Van Gogh, which is a multimedia interpretation of his work. Though, I enjoyed it thoroughly, it took many liberties with his work, as this was a homage rather than a presentation of his masterpieces.
    This cupboard is like looking at the naked person under their fine wardrobe and jewelry on the red carpet. Certainly, worth looking at but missing the person's viewpoint.
     
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  16. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    Perhaps, the replies ended up in her Junk Folder. Some people never look there. She might have thought there was no responses.
     
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  17. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    I didn't expect that at all. It is hidden under the skirt (I don't know if that is the correct term)? Makes it especially nice.
     
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  18. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    I did stop at a couple of Minnesota Antique Malls. One was overpriced and jammed to the ceiling. The other was glass, linens, tourist gifts type of place. I tend to avoid towns though, as the point of camping is to see nature and to go hiking - kind of like golfing without the little balls:).
     
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  19. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Yep agrees, that restored paint on these cupboards really make them POP, not to mention they were ALL painted originally.
    Problem is, paint colors are highly subjective nevermind many prefer the "wood" look these days so the word is, if selling, leave it be.
    You see many high-end reproductions of these cupboards, mostly in highly figured maple or walnut ( the wood look is POPULAR) but I did come across this repro recently.
    Maker just stuck their toe in the paint-decorated water. Trying to have it both ways I assume.
    copy.jpg



    I call it an "apron" but "skirt" works just as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  20. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    I see what you mean. A little paint here and there. I suppose, after you have it for a while, you will decide whether to sell it, especially if some resources will help you get something from the Dupont sale. I'm sure it's hard especially with the additional transport cost that you weren't expecting.
    Thanks for giving me the correct terminology. I spend so much time looking up words, when I read something technical that I don't know about. Not that I mind at all, but it slows things down.
     
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