Featured Troublesome Bottle/Flask

I have this bottle/flask that I had many experts(auction houses, appraisers)look at this and none had even remotely close answers to when and where this is from(I wont mention the ideas because I want to get clean one but it they had a very wide difference in time and area between them and none had overlap). None knew the makers mark. I looked into makers mark book but did not see any that I though matched. Mark is on both the bottom and lid. No stamp for the metal so I doubt it is anything precious. Any ideas would be helpful. Thank you

 

Did anyone suggest Moroccan? Safi perhaps?

 

No, thank you I'll look into that areas marks

 

Looks like a recent souvenir from Morocco.

Debora

 

What has you saying that?

 

That silver (or silvertone) filigree ware is typical of Fez.

Debora

 

These aren't an exact match for yours but similar in type.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/107378...-and-alpaca-sugar-mill?ref=shop_home_active_5

 

Excellent examples, say_it_slowly. And if it was genuinely old, one would expect the workmanship to be a bit more refined.

Debora

 

Would these typically be marked with an R(or something that looks like an R)?
I am genuinely curious because not one person I took it to said anything about N. Africa. Also this is 7th different area someone has suggested(all profesanials).

 

I think you're making yourself a distraction looking for a makers mark.....
it could be anyone of hundreds of artisans working on these types of regional items , that is just not possible to find.

The items that SIS found do correspond very nicely to what you have.....
IMO...

 

I think you are right. I was more asking about the marks because I did not see any with markings that are similar most had none or in Arabic.
It does look similar, but everyone else that looked at it has had similar items to show me also... Last person I showed it to, is the appraiser at a museum here and they said SE Asia early 1900s(so kinda the same being cheap tourist ware) but it should go to antiques roadshow...One thing I forgot to mention and the previous appraisers all agreed on is what it is, perfume/oil flask. It is missing the chain, you can see the eyes for the chain in the pictures. Early 1900s was the newest aga i got.

 

Undoubtedly the same workmanship in a different form. Did you notice the shipping cost?

 

This is not a flask. A flask has a neck with a narrow opening. This piece has a very wide mouth, oil or perfume easily spilled, perfume evaporating. Completely unsuited for this use. An unguent sort of thing, maybe.

 

Hadn't noticed but they're shipping from Spain.

Perhaps AJ can offer some insight. @Any Jewelry

 

looks better suited to dry contents..

 

Decorative ware from Safi, Morocco, as s_i_s said. Pretty new.
The marks are probably just for this lid goes with this pot.

That person should be fired.

Does it smell of perfume?
Moroccans use scented 'body butter' and I can imagine this having been a gift pot for body butter, but there is no proof. It is certainly not a flask, so perfume and oil are out of the question, and since they had no idea of the origin they were probably guessing.

This page has a nice overview of Moroccan pottery including some Safi metal decorated ceramics:
https://www.veniceclayartists.com/pottery-of-morocco/

A Safi vase from the link:

 

Thank you for the link.
It smells old and the faint smell of either a basic soap or an older perfume.
The mouth is less then an inch, so body butter would not be easy to get in or out(maybe a dry good).
The lid is super tight to the body, so I can see the need to mark both for fit(nothing is evaporating out of it).
The metal overlay has the same designs as this but laid out different https://www.e-mosaik.com/products/glass-perfume-bottle-with-embossed-metal-overla
Also the one I have has moon phases(and stars), not sure if this one does but are not seen in the photo. Mine is pretty worn so they don't pick up well in the photo(I didn't notice until today what it was).
One appraiser said middle eastern and even though that is not the same, some of the designs because of Islam will be similar. It might be a Ramadan design.

 

That is pretty common in Moroccan crafts, I have bags of Moroccan enameled metal beads with moons and stars.
It is not Ramadan related, but could be related to Berber/Amazigh culture. Their main deity is the Goddess Tanith, one of her symbols is the moon. Most Amazigh are (nominally) muslim, but still keep certain old traditions.
That doesn't mean that the manufacturer of the metal bands and ornaments made a conscious decision to put moons and stars on the metal from a spiritual viewpoint, or even knew the meaning. People don't always know what traditional motifs mean, just like we don't know the symbolism of every Western motif.

The metal on your pot is not worn, btw. It was made that way. It looks the same on many pieces that are made today.
The metal on old Safi ceramic pots is much more refined, better quality.

 

No stamp for the metal so I doubt it is anything precious.

I agree !

 

It pretty but doesn’t have any real quality detail or craftsmanship and it is mass produced. I was thinking of buying something very similar just the other day. Just because it looks so attractive and nicely decorated. There’s a very funky art,beads and craft shop in one of the areas where I work and they import these type of things.