Featured Antwerpen Liberation on 8mm

Got this amateur film taken at Antwerpen and an other of battleships at an online auction.

Very excited to share this absolute gem. Unfortunately the digitization is taking longer than expected. Here are some stills I made for sharing, not final digitization.

Any thoughts on the date and things going on in the frames would be very appreciated!

Finally, are there any museums or institutions that would be interested in this footage?



Can't wait to share more!

 

Just a guess, but maybe just post liberation (WW2) and irregulars or resistance.

 

Yes, that is what I am assuming.

"Just" That would still be a really cool and fascinating recording to release!

 

Thanks very much. Wow. This is true treasure. Appreciate share. Big fan here.

 

I'm sure many will be interested in seeing the footage.

 

Absolutely, I meant 'just' as in very short time wise after liberation (not in another form).

 

A quick DSLR recording of the projected film before sending it out for scanning, just to be safe. Complete 1st reel and beginning of 2nd.



Link is private, please do not put on other sites.

 

Cool historic piece of film, thank you for sharing!

 

I recently started talking to the Antwerp City Archives, and they are certainly interested in the films. Soon there will be an exhibition/showing of films from that period and they want to use this film in it as well.

Thinking about donating the films + digital files.

Unfortunately, it is a bit difficult from a legal point of view because the copyright holder is unknown, and there is also portrait rights on some fragments.

Furthermore, collaborators can be seen being taken away - those fragments are (perhaps) too sensitive for the archive to use without permission from copyright/portrait right owner.


So very cool that a purpose has already been found for the recordings, a pity that it is a bit difficult from a legal/ethical point of view.

My opinion about the fragments with the collaborators is that all facets of war should be seen, also with people in bad/hate positions. Otherwise we can remove all the not-nice images and thus give a happy go lucky image of history.

What is your opinion?

 

I also doubt there would be any issue, the only people likely to be alive still are the children, the copyright holder (videographer) is almost certainly dead. I understand for copyright to be an issue you would need to be making money from it (or depriving the copyright owner from making money). I would think it is unlikely that publishing it as a historic document could cause any issues, but rules do differ from country to country, I'm sure the museum should have decent legal guidance as they are bound to run into such issues from time to time.

As regards ethics, my point of view is that it's a historic document that should be left complete; hiding, denying, censoring or altering history seems like a very bad idea - sadly freedom of speech seems to be under attack in the West.

 

Belgium had a substantial number of collaborators, there was even a Flemish Hitlerjugend, maybe a Walloon Hitlerjugend as well. Collaboration tore families apart.
Apparently it is still a sensitive issue with the descendants, so I can see how this footage could cause uproar in some circles. I have no idea how powerful those circles are, are they linked to the Vlaams Blok (Flemish Block, inportant political party) for instance?
According to some researchers the history of collaboration still influences Belgian politics to this day.
I think it is best to let the people at the Antwerp City Archives guide you in all this.

I would like to emphasize that things weren't one sided in Belgium, but that was exactly the problem for many families.
And there were true heroes who fought against the Nazis, my relative Gaston Léger (whose photo is in one of the threads here) was one of them.

@Requiem , if you are interested in the subject, the excellent novel 'Het verdriet van België' (The Sorrow of Belgium) by Hugo Claus gives you an idea.
There is also the book 'Onverwerkt verleden. Collaboratie en repressie in België 1942-1952' by historians Luc Huyse and Steven Dhondt.

 

Found my thread on 'our' Gaston:

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/belgian-war-hero-gaston-léger-would-like-to-know-more.24676/

 

Privacy, even of long dead people in Belgium (and Europe) is a serious issue I've bumped against. My wife's great aunt (American) married a Belgian in 1920 and lived there for decades including through WWII. She lived an interesting life, including being part of the Comet Line that rescued allied airmen. I have worked for a while trying to gather enough info to write her story. But even though she died in the 1960's, it's extremely difficult to get access to any official documents because of strict privacy laws, and the fact that she has no living descendants who can sign off on the requests.

 

in some countries they even introduced new laws concerning the internet that give people a right on oblivion.
Belgiums situation is a bit more complex than most because e.g. the Rexists are still virulent via the Catholic Church in certain families.
if I was you I'd make sure that your films are available only via US servers to inhibit any complaints of families.

 

Thank you very much for all your considerate thoughts and opinions. It is certainly an important facet of showing footage like this -any kind of footage-.

I do think at this point things like privacy are a bigger concern than copyright.
To me is seems impossible for anybody to prove that they are the descendants of the filmmaker. It doesn't look like any personal property or family was filmed.




I'm going to communicate closely with the archive so we understand each other and are on the same page. I'm sure they are much better versed in this than I.




Right to oblivion.

Taking that to the logical extreme: should we burn all photographs and films and phonographs of the past? Especially of people comiting crimes in dark moments of history and footage of war or protests.

 

An other logical extreme, If a descendant of an axis soldier in film footage requests that segment to be cut out of the original film/digital file and destroyed should we do that?

 

there is not meant the simple Private by right of oblivion and there is no distruction intended, but there is the "right" for simple criminals that the internet should not be allowed to show the minutes of the deeds - and the name of the family including its members - that are done - mostly - during wartime or armed conflicts and be a burden for the surviving family members, when the information is of no public interest.
this was already legislation in some countries before the internet for written media.

 

Right, perhaps the legislation is more meant for detailed private information of a person, family, property and deeds. Not a few seconds of amateur footage taken in the whim of a moment that shows no private information but the vignette of an anonymous person.


Ethical decisions need to be considered even if things are allowed by law of course. Something may be juristically permitted but not found sound by a moral compass.