Dutch Faience or ?

One off my long time collected ceramics . Would like to hear your idea's about it's origin and age . Size 35 width and 5 cm height . I think it could be by a Dutch maker from Haarlem from around the 17th centu ry ? So help needed

 

Beautiful, Ger. Is this what you were thinking of, majolica by the Verstraeten family?

http://www.aronson.com/majolica-hollandts-porceleyn-and-the-verstraeten-family/

http://www.bb-worksofart.com/Glass-Ceramics/Ceramics/A-Dutch-maiolica-polychrome-scalloped-plate

 

I wonder if maybe @Walter Del Pellegrino might have a look at this one.

 

If I look at the way the backside is made including the glazing that has been running on some parts and the colouring on the drawing I would make a link to this maker ? The only thing that's bothering me a bit is the condition off the plate to be this age . But then again why would you make a copy that would be so close to a original work even the running off the glazing at the back and the damage on the drawing that looks like a oven mistake ? The used clay is maybe something to look at compared with proven 17th century delftware ?

 

Here's the back off the original and my plate

 

Based on the style of the decoration I believe this is perhaps an early 20th century piece. The plate itself is obviously handmade of terra-cotta. It seems to have been produced by using a hand press in the same manner as would have been used during the Renaissance. The holes near the rim, used for hanging the plate, were made before the plate was fired in the kiln. This is an indication that the plate was created to serve solely as a tondo (circular artwork) and simply not a plate that someone decided to paint over. This leads to the supposition that it is the work of a professional ceramicist. There a number of reasons I believe it is 20th century rather than earlier. First and most importantly is the treatment of the design. Never have I seen an early example where the main design goes right to the rim of the plate. Medieval and Renaissance art was highly formulated. That is to say that rules were set and rarely broken. Even the old Istoriato plates (biblical, historical, and mythological subjects) are trimmed at the edges with a single color all around. The portrait itself is much too loose in its composition to be of the distant past and more closely resembles work seen during the Art Deco period of the 1920’s. The blue of this plate appears much too weak. Period pieces would have been made by grounding the mineral lapis lazuli. This would have imparted a much stronger blue than is seen on this example. I must conclude that this is an early 20th century tondo probably of southern Italian origin. Having said all that I must add that I like this piece of artwork. It shows a boldness rarely encountered in such pieces for its time.

 

Thanks Walter

 

Thanks for your comment and looks to be right .But need to see a expert who is able to handle it in real time .So try to make a appointment at the Dutch ceramic experts to go to soon .

 

Curious where the pic of the original you’re referring to is from?

 

Will you let us know what they say?

 

But still thinking that this kind off loosely painting also was done in the 17th century . So still a Dutch link possibility maybe ? http://www.delagelandenantiek.nl/keramiek-tegels/nederlandse-majolica-schotel/

 

Please note that in your last example the main design (Roman Emperor on Horseback) does not extend all the way to the rim as the design in the first photo does. The lines on the 17th century Dutch plate are clearly delineated and the rim is completely devoid of any color or decoration. This is typical of the style known as “Compendiario”. It is defined by the use of only one or two colors against a white background with large expanses that remain undecorated. It was most popular in the 1700’s. If you compare the two plates closely you will see a vast difference in the two styles.

 

Would be nice to find a similar style somewhere online to compare and like the backside to compare the shape of this with other plate's ?

 

Ger, I have been looking some more at Dutch majolica, and I agree with Walter, on all the examples I see the central design does not extend to the rim. Some examples:


https://historiek.net/overzicht-van-noord-nederlandse-majolica-uit-de-gouden-eeuw/72759/


https://www.collectiegelderland.nl/organisaties/nederlandstegelmuseum
/voorwerp-11023




https://haffmansantiek.nl/majolica-schotel-17e-eeuw.html


From Antwerp, now Belgium.
http://www.tento.be/OKV-artikel/unieke-collectie-topstukkenlijst-voor-wie-wel-pap-lust-van-majolica

I must say, I quite like the idea of a later artist made piece, inspired by 17th century majolica.

 

The thing I've been wondering about is the damage in the second to last photo. It looks like a kiln kiss, where 2 pieces touched during the firing. In itself, that is not such an unusual event, but it definitely makes the piece a second. In the 17th C, how would a second have been handled? Would it have been marketed, or destroyed? It wouldn't have sold to the top echelon, and the further down the line you get, the less likely its survival becomes.

I think Walter makes some good points.

 

I was wondering when people started adding hanging holes to ceramic plates, but haven't been able to find any info.

 

Moreotherstuff,
Circular artwork with proper holes for hanging have been discovered in Greek tombs as early as 500 B.C. (The Red-Figure Period). The idea of hanging plates on walls has moved in and out of popularity with a degree of regularity over the centuries. On the subject of the sales of damaged goods I would suspect that consumerism has remained pretty much unchanged over time and the purchase of seconds would not be uncommon. After all, the ceramicist of old were, for the most part, professionals looking to make a living. If, after spending many hours and accruing costs for materials, the artists discovered a flaw in his work he, or she, would not be adverse to discounting a piece rather than taking a total loss. And what potential buyer isn’t drawn to a large savings.

 

I learn so much here. I was also curious about the holes in plates to hang them on walls.

 

Good information but anybody has found something similar looking design plates already somewhere online ? And the difference in backsides off the different kind off country's who could have made my plate or a similar looking plate ?