Won't You Join Me On My Fool's Errand?

I suspect that since those among us who did not see them as all the same person right from the start have named all the possible pairs as looking like one another, they are all the same person.

 

Good point on which you are basing that!

 

I am not sure but I think you draw your own conclusions.

 

Good!

 

This has been a completely fascinating thread and you cannot imagine how much I appreciate the participation.

The following explanation of my musings on these pictures is long and meandering and probably of little interest to anyone not me.

But you were so kind to play along, I'm taking you all in.

Here's what I know about the pictures for a fact:

I want them to all be the same person.

And, yes, A and D are the same person. Both photos are from the 1940s, D is from 1941/2 and A is later (but still in the 1940s).

Picture "B" is cropped from a photo that includes my great-grandfather and two small children. On the back is a note from my grandmother claiming the adults to be "mom and dad" and the two children to be my grandmother and her older brother. From other family pictures, the id of the children is certainly feasible -- which dates the photo to approximately 1907/8.

On the back of "C" there are numerous notations. Some from the photographer. One that says "mom and dad" (in what I believe is my grandmother's hand). A later note (by my mother) says "wedding picture". In a child's handwriting, the name "Everett".

I am not sure when this photo was taken, because it could be one of two women.

My great-grandfather, Samuel, had two wives (not at the same time), both born in West Virginia, both born in 1883. Both named Lottie.

Pictures "A" and "D" are Lottie02. Almost everything I know about Lottie01 is found in the marriage certificate. I have never found her family. Or record of her death.

Samuel fathered nine children. The first child, Everett, is the only one attributed to Lottie01. Lottie01, Samuel and Everett, all appear together in the 1900 census.

I believe Lottie02 is my great-grandmother... but there are a number of irregularities with birth certificates of the older children. Plus, Lottie02 and my grandfather did not marry until four years after the birth of my grandmother (yes, I understand that a wedding ceremony does not control biology).

There was a lot of moving around -- child 2 born in Indiana (one transcript of his birth certificate has a completely unknown woman as his mother... I'm still attempting to get a copy of the actual certificate). Child 3 (my grandmother) never had a birth certificate and had to file for a delayed certificate. Child 4 born in Illinois and while her birth certificate appears in an index, I have never been able to get a copy (not for lack of trying).

I have never been able to find record of what happened to Lottie01, but by 1910, Lottie01 is gone, Everett is missing, and Lottie02 and Samuel are together with Children 2, 3, and 4. In West Virginia. (Everett does come back into the picture and is traceable from that point on).

Oh, and the reason DNA has not yet solved this? So far, all the DNA matches that include my grandmother's line also include other family lines in common -- a "double cousins" sort of thing.

So, that's my story. The facial recognition was FASCINATING -- I spent a couple of hours testing it on people I know and had mixed results. Old pictures taken in harsh sunlight seem to result in a significant error rate. Studio pictures resulted in a much higher degree of accuracy.

I really like the idea they are all the same person. Not that it matters, it just makes my great-grandmother the great-grandmother I knew. And that would be my preference (but as a genealogist, it kills me not to know! lol).

 

Yes, fascinating... so the date of photo C that we discussed in the other thread turns out to be critical.

Actually, I think it is because C and D are taken from a similar angle... but I see a strong resemblance and think they are both the same person.

What year was Child 2 born?

 

Child 2 born in 1905. You're right about photo "C" -- nailing the date could help. But if we nail it to anytime between 1900 and 1905... it could be either one of them.

And I think that's where we are, lol.

 

Something that occurred to me last night: what are the odds that his two wives would resemble each other so closely? Yes, I know it *could* (theoretically) happen, so the thought doesn't help much.

 

Yes, and I think that date range is right for the photo. And finding the date of the change in studio name (if it is the same studio). I will keep thinking about that.

 

I know, I know. But then again, I think it would be easier to find his "type" than find a second woman with the same name born in the same year.

Actually, that part isn't all that confusing... it just took me a long time to realize there were two Lotties. lol

If I could find Lottie01's family, it might answer a lot of questions, (like where's Everett in 1910?)... but no luck so far.

 

Hey, Jivvy! We could be cousins! I have a set of great-grandparents born in West Virginia too. (and great-great and great-great-great too!) That "double cousins" thing shows up a lot in my tree and not just in WV.

I have a lot of VA/WV research experience. If you want another set of eyes on the subject, send me a PM.

 

@Bakersgma PM on the way -- thanks!

 

Pretty cool. But I think it's the same person on all pictures.

 

I'm just curious.

Is there proof that Lottie1 and Lottie2 had different maiden names?

Could there have possibly have been a disagreement where Lottie left him for a few years and then returned after straightening things out?

I just find it very difficult that two women born the same year, with the same name, looking like sisters, married the same man.
But hey, life is strange and I guess anything is possible. It's just hard to believe.

 

@clutteredcloset49 There are definitely two born-in-the-same year Lotties with two maiden names (two marriage certificates, even -- oh, and they had different middle names).

But we don't know that they looked alike. The pictures I posted could absolutely be all Lottie02. Getting a feel for that is why I originally posted. I've looked at the pictures for too long to have any feel for what's real. I wanted other opinions!

 

Not so that I can find her.

But I can't find her anywhere. I've been trying for 8+ years.

 

Dumb question, but... Lottie is often a nickname for Charlotte. Have you looked under that name as well?

You probably have -- and that's why I called it a dumb question.

 

Oh yes. Lottie02 was definitely a Charlotte. In fact, I'm fairly certain the only time she went by "Lottie" was when it would serve to confuse her great-granddaughter's research.

I don't mind any questions at all -- you never know what's going to be the right spark.

 

In the "have you tried" line - I've tried Charlotte for Lottie1, have spelled her maiden name 3 different ways looking for her birth family in the county where she was married in both 1880 and 1900, tried searching death records in any county of WV just using her married surname and female gender (not limiting the given name.) Tried death records in the adjacent state too! And of, course, Find-A-Grave. Have yet to uncover anything useful. But that isn't stopping me!