Need some expert help with Hallmarks

Beautiful pieces!

 

I agree with AF on era in which this kind of design was typically made. If it had valid US marks, it would have been in the 1870s or 1880s. Certainly well after the last time the crowned leopard was in use in the UK. This isn't even a case of "clobbering."

 

Hello Nate .. well now we know...before these pictures were shown, the item could have been anything from a thimble to a Boeing a380 airbus...really spectacular. Marks still a worry, and obviously need research, and agree with Miscstuff re period and style..
As you said earlier the item was listed as silver plated and if priced accordingly , would be a good buy...you might be on a winner ...thanks for finally sharing...regards..pewter2

 

Thank you all, wonderful knowledge far beyond mine. Any thoughts on what could explain the oddity of it all? I’m torn, asking price is steep ($300).

 

a Boeing a380 airbus.

That would be something to see, a merger between Boeing and Airbus Industrie.

 

uh uh yes you are correct... another old person moment this end... competitive companies ..we will go for a silver a380 Airbus , but was meant in jest...many thanks for putting me straight...regards ..pewter2

 

Really good secession stuff is very hard to find these days. At $300 you may not make any money but I suspect you wont lose much either. If you like them make an offer for $240 and see what happens. Fair warning though I am not an expert so maybe wait for advice from others.
Cheers
Stephen

 

I agree, good Vienna Secession stuff is very valuable. However, this is nothing like it. The whole point of Vienna Secession was to break away from the Revival fashions of the 19th century and come up with new designs.
I agree with af and Bakers on the period.

These are Vienna Secession:

 

Suspect Secessionist designers would turn in their graves at these pieces being described as part of that movement...

Everything about this set (incomplete with only the pot, creamer and waste bowl) screams circa 1870s American 'Aesthetic' silverplate, this one appearing to be sort of an eclectic mix of Egyptian and Gothic elements. Have seen the design fairly often, it's a Reed & Barton pattern, the pseudo-marks most likely stamped by a retailer and intended to insinuate a better quality than electroplate.

I have the patent somewhere in my files, will post as soon as I dig them out...

~Cheryl

 

Thank you Cheryl, and thank you everyone else for your input.

 

~Cheryl

 

wow, you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge Cheryl

 

The plot thickens... So I had previously asked the seller if they could provide me with additional photos of any other marks. I got a response from the seller informing me today they are taking the listing down as they believe it may be a sterling set. The seller mentioned that they just acid tested it after I brought up the markings and it came up as sterling (yes I know they might not be doing a proper test, but this particular seller seems to sell a lot of jewelry and silver so I trust they might know what they’re doing). They’re taking the set to have it looked over by someone who trades in antique silver. I asked if they could let me know what they find out (for curiosity, the forum, and whether I made the right choice to not purchase). I hope the seller updates me, I really do want to know.

The one thing that’s still etched in my brain: The silver marks are sooo worn down, I would think that trying to “clobber” a plated item wouldn’t work at all. I would also expect someone putting fake hallmarks on a plated piece would try to make them look perfect (make the marks, then re-plate). Any thoughts on how worn down the marks are?

 

The pictures of the 3 marks don't look particularly worn down to me. I think the seller is blowing smoke, so to speak. If they really sell that much silver they should have known right off that there's something very wrong with this picture.

 

don't look worn to me either

 

There is no clobbering, the pieces are not altered from their original form.

Reed & Barton and other manufacturers sometimes wholesaled goods without their trademark, later marked by the vendor or even other manufacturing firms - the marks aren't fakes, they're just intended to resemble British hallmarks and are clearly not correct, but many people thought such marks indicated quality, though often having no idea what they actually meant. This is not a particularly uncommon Reed & Barton pattern, made with a few variations, and it would have been made prior to when the manufacturer started production in sterling silver.

Find it interesting that the auction listing described these as "English Silverplate" with "two London city marks surrounding the central duty mark", even though English silverplate wouldn't bear those marks, and they also clearly state their condition includes, "Age-related plate wear, finish-loss, and darkening."

Here are some others found in a quick search, bearing Reed & Barton marks:

https://www.antiquesnavigator.com/d-109839/antique-reed--barton-silverplate-tea-pot-kettle-1869.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-piece-Re...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reed-amp-B...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reed-Barto...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Re...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Re...733719?hash=item3aaaa04697:g:bsEAAOSwZd1VYOkV

https://www.rubylane.com/item/780843-EW0000207/Victorian-Silver-Plate-Reed-Barton-Teapot

~Cheryl

 

That explains a lot, thank you Cheryl. When I was researching the items, I definitely came across a number of the plated Reed Barton sets, and at the time I thought perhaps Reed & Barton was copying an older style from the 1820's.