Merry Christmas! Age of this Italian painting?

I thought it was fitting to post this piece on Christmas Eve. It appears to be Mary, her cousin Elizabeth and the Christ child. Oil on copper. Anyone care to take a stab on the age? I'm figuring it's Italian, but could possibly also be French. It's got all kinds of masking tape on the back to hold it in place.

 

Does the copper appear hammered? I think this is almost impossible to date from photos because paintings like this were produced for hundreds of years.

 

I can't tell if it's hammered or not, unfortunately. I was hoping maybe someone could guess its date based on the pigments.

 

Did you acquire this in America? If not, where?

 

Neither of the figures in the close up look all that happy. Mary looks as if she'd rather be having a bit of fun, possibly with that ginger haired sailor that the baby reminds her of, and the baby is using his god-powers to see where the nails are going to go.

The artist might have been striving for tranquility but achieved disgruntlement.

 

Alec, I bought it here in America at an estate sale.

 

Hey, Moon!

Very Francesco Trevisani? Or after... He did oil on copper. Wouldn't that be cool if original?

https://www.google.com/search?q=fra...HxoATT8oCwBQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=685

 

Thanks for the link, sue! I don't believe he's the artist but it's probably someone very similar. Hope you had a good Christmas. Good to see you posting again.

 

Okay.

The best I can do here is theorize.

Painted in America by an immigrant Italian itinerant journeyman artist, c.1880s, who derived some or all of his income from producing pictures for Catholic churches.

At one time there were quite a few of these fellows criss-crossing the country. These pictures found their way onto the market when churches closed.

 

Any particular reason for thinking it's Elizabeth? Anne, the mother of Mary, might be more likely. If it was Elizabeth, you might expect to see the infant John the Baptist toddling along somewhere.

 

Hi,
To tell you what I think. I think it is Elizabeth holding St John with Mary looking on. JMOP. Having seen all kinds of "church art" that is what comes out in my eyes.
greg

 

Sorry, popping back in for a sec....

Thanks, Moon - and you, too!

Don, I'm back home...got home a bit before Christmas. It was lovely. Such different landscape, architecture...etc.

 

Interesting theories, guys. Thanks, something to chew on.

 

I think that would be a very unusual combination.

 

Unusual but not impossible...although I note that in paintings from the Middle Ages and beyond blue and red garments tend to signify the Virgin Mary whereas the earth-orange garments are often associated with St. Anne.

Any Italian artist doing church work would know this.

 

And the baby is holding his hand up in benediction. Got to be Jesus and not John the Baptist. IMO

 

Yea, verily.

 

hahahaha!