Featured Can you help me with some infos about this artifact found in greece

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Eni, Feb 19, 2018.

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Can u help me for this?

Poll closed Mar 11, 2018.
  1. Can you help me with some infos about this artifact found in greece

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  2. Can you help me with some infos about this artifact found in greece

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  3. Can you help me with some infos about this artifact found in greece

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  1. Eni

    Eni New Member

    Can you help me with some infos about this artifact found in greece
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Eni

    Eni New Member

    This is old silver
     
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the forum, Eni.
    You are one lucky guy, wow! Where did you find it?
    Unless I am very much mistaken these are rare early 16th century boxwood carvings from the south of the Netherlands or from Flanders, encased in silver.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_boxwood_miniature
    http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2017/...d-carvings-that-fit-in-the-palm-of-your-hand/
    http://www.ancient-origins.net/arti...ar-old-secret-gothic-miniature-boxwood-021263

    The carving on the right is of the Annunciation.
    The one on the left is a scene I don't know, the horseman is killing a king? Maybe one of the horsemen from the Apocalypse? If so, the bearded figure on the right could be st John the Evangelist, who wrote the Apocalypse.
    The eagle on the silver case stands for st John the Evangelist. Is the eagle on the back of the horseman carving? In that case the scene would almost certainly be apocalyptic.
    The angel with six wings is a seraph. In Christianity they are the highest angels, beings of pure light, who surround the throne of God. It would make sense that the seraph is on the back of the Annunciation.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    @Bronwen , you will love this. Your views on the imagery, please?:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    The boxwood carvings are more valuable than the silver. Together they are stunning.
    I am still amazed at your find. I live in the part of the world where these were made, and I have never found one, nor do I expect to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    Figtree3, Houseful, kyratango and 4 others like this.
  5. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    finally.....a real antique , antique !!!!

    So Eni.....where did you find this......??
     
  6. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    AMEN!
    And I didn't even mind that he didn't post the photos full image.:D
     
  7. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    The one I can match most closely is the horseman, which looks pretty much like standard depictions of St. George slaying the dragon.

    George.JPG

    Laboring with some temporarily diminished eyesight here, so feel I'm not picking up as much detail in the other wood carving as I would like. It has an overall similarity to Annunciation scenes, but Mary is enthroned, think the babe may already be on her knee, the setting is palatial & there are other figures, at least one of them crowned, looking on. I'm getting out of it more of an Adoration scene, but may not be picking up details that would argue for the Annunciation.

    A seraph it is. A big part of their job is hovering about in adoration. The bird looks to me more like the dove representing the Holy Spirit (I was wrong on this just recently, so might be good to bring in @kyratango ) & here they are both in the same scene:

    [​IMG]

    Do I understand correctly that this is a single object that comes apart into 2 pieces? A lovely little pocket devotional item. Very nice find. :happy:
     
  8. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    An eagle is the symbol of St John the Apostle.
    The more wings an angel has, the higher its rank.
    I agree with the annunciation for the one scene, but the other scene seems to show the horseman, in a pilgrim's hat, spearing a king.
    zzz.jpg
    zz.jpg
    zzzzz.jpeg
    z.jpg.jpeg

    Maybe not the annunciation as Mary is already holding the child.
     
  9. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Thanks for sharpening up the photo for me. Yes, spearing one while another flees, angels overhead. Does look more like the vision of the End of Days in John's Revelation. Still think the other is not the Annunciation but a way of indicating the establishment of the Kingdom of God on the Earth after the wicked are sent on their way. A reminder to be on your best behavior - the Eschaton is coming!

    The couple of times the Rapture has been predicted in my adult life, either it didn't come to pass or I didn't notice anyone missing because I didn't know anyone who made the cut.
     
  10. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Yes, could be scenes from Revelation.
     
  11. Rastella

    Rastella Everything is figureoutable.

    Congratulations! I love this!
     
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  12. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the enlargement @moreotherstuff , a great help. Yes, I can see Mary is holding a baby now, so not the Annnunciation.

    For anyone not acquainted with Christian terms, the Apocalypse and the Revelation of st John are one and the same, so we're all talking about the same book.;) Traditionally the Apocalypse is attributed to st John the Evangelist, hence the eagle symbolism. There is some academic discussion about authorship, and the Apocalypse could be by another John, generally called st John of Patmos.
    To the maker of this little beauty, the two were one and the same person, and to him the Apocalypse was written on the Greek island of Patmos by the Evangelist.

    Eni has been in contact, I will respect his privacy. No exciting story, but it is all ok.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    komokwa, Bronwen and Rastella like this.
  13. Rastella

    Rastella Everything is figureoutable.

    If my grandma didn't make the cut, we're all doomed! Well, I'm off to make the best of it. :D
     
  14. Phaik Hooi

    Phaik Hooi Well-Known Member

    :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:
     
    komokwa, Bronwen and Any Jewelry like this.
  15. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    It had crossed my mind that it might be a souvenir of Patmos.
     
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