19th Century Gambling Wheel Treasure

Holy Cow… That is my instinct too.
I'm using these guys.
http://www.expressxrfanalysis.com/services-costs
I think I might do the two week one and save a few bucks. Otherwise it is fifty bucks just like Oxford.

 

Alright, I just want to throw this out there because this seems to be the most promising lead on a early history of this thing…

Because these numbers are a rigged game, I've been researching crooked gamblers. One, in particular, sticks out and was known to own saloons and roulette wheels from Skagway to Dawson; Jefferson "Soapy" Smith….

The numbers are obviously rigged on this wheel. I don't know how the betting worked, but if it was a ten dollar, one dollar, or ten cent bet the payout could simply be the value of the number on the wheel. You basically have only a ten percent chance of getting your money back or better. For example, you bet ten dollars and the wheel, which has mostly 6,7,8, and 9, spins a 7. You lose three dollars. It is kind of clever because you'd still have money to bet with for a long time, but no way anybody can beat those odds over time. Especially if the wheel is weighted, too.

So, Soapy owned a hotel and saloon in Dawson where photographs in the collection have been proven to be from now. Then, I found this story about how Soapy paid $1000 to have a wheel shipped to Skagway. That seems preposterous given that in the late 1800's this was like a well to do man's salary. From what I gather, and I am still researching this info, is that it was dismissed as a special order to rush and get there to make money. That still sounds insane.

Now, what if Soapy couldn't have the wheel made there because people wouldn't trust him so it had to be "shipped" in like a legitimate gambling wheel. A thousand dollars could be paid in fifty ounces of gold. Maybe the price of shipping was normal, probably less than twenty dollars, but what if the bulk of the gold went to the wheel and its maker? Say maybe a portion went to the jeweler/engraver for making the crooked wheel and the rest went to the composition of it as a way to hide some or satisfy some kind of passion or superstition he had? There was an engraver/jeweler/gunsmith/assayer/goldsmith/eventual mayor in Juneau named Emery Valentine that rented places to Soapy and was known to do business with him. Interesting that the design of the wheel has Victorian hearts in the negative space of the spokes and a man named Valentine that knew gold and engraving dealt with Soapy. If Valentine signed the photo on wikipedia himself, The E in his name has resemblance to the loops or circles at the termini of the numbers on the wheel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emery_Valentine

At this point, these are suspects in an investigation, to me. Soapy just seems like the most likely owner of an extravagantly rigged wheel like this somewhere near Alaska.

"It is known that Soapy had interest in at least 3 saloons and gaming houses in Skagway, Alaska so there is no reason to believe that Soapy only had one wheel. Interesting to note that the wheel and table my father purchased, cost Soapy $1,000 to ship to Skagway!"
http://soapysmiths.blogspot.com/2014_01_01_archive.html

It is also interesting to note that the author's father had no way of absolutely authenticating that the wheel, which may have well been Soapy's, was the one he actually paid that much for… The author also fails to mention saloons that soapy owned in other towns, like Dawson City.

Interestingly though, the wheel on that website has very similar brass casting on the top and similar wood variety. The brass inlays, almost in some ways, resemble the spokes of the wheel when two are put together. Maybe because I'm so far removed from the time period the styles are just the same and I read more into it.

Now I'm just talking, but I needed to get all of this down before bed so I don't lose my train of thought. It is fun to share, too. Maybe someone will pass through here and just happen to be an expert on Soapy and his rigged wheels.

 

Notice how the six inlaid brass spokes are a simple version of the six on my wheel. The wood also looks very similar around the edges. The brass knob is the same style as the pole on mine. They are very similar, both rigged, both from Alaska.

Soapy?

 

agree with af. if 35 oz of gold the scrap value would exceed any other monetary value of the item. I would have had it melted pretty quickly!!!!!!

 

agree with af. if 35 oz of gold the scrap value would exceed any other monetary value of the item. I would have had it melted pretty quickly!!!!!!

No, no, no, Adrian ya must have just gotten here, welcome. The latest assay is in process and I'm sure there's much more gold in it than that, but the owner is quite fond of it and a meltdown is out of the question. It stays in a vault when not being scraped for more assay samples.

 

Hahaha. The owner is quite fond of it, naturally.

Should hear back before first of the year but may run by Oxford again this week too. So two more tests incoming.

I suppose I am more fond of the history than value. I could never destroy it to recover the gold. I would hope others feel the same.

It was tough to find a bank vault with a big enough box. Just moved all my other safety deposit stuff in with it... Got plenty of room for more junk. Paying a good fee every month.

Hahaha, believe me though, there have been some hard months where I thought about breaking a chunk off for melt. So glad I haven't done it.

The other side of this coin that still hasn't been investigated is the lead in the pole. The threaded bolts at the top and bottom for the base and finial are seated in lead. But I can feel and tell that the lead goes up about 8 or more inches at the bottom and 3 or 4 at the top. I'm wondering if anything is hidden in there. It would be really easy to stack coins in the pole and pour lead over them. You can see where the bearing is, that someone has been pouring lead into the hole for it. I've never seen a lead filled brass pole like this, but maybe it is more common as an old pole mount construction technique? I've also considered that the wheel was too heavy for the whole mount so they added more lead as a counterweight...

 

This saga reminds me this tale of typical daily life in Alaska

 

Hey he's in Alaska, don't you watch any of them thar gold-diggin' shows? All ya need is a claim site, a backhoe, a sluice, generators, compressors, good weather, a crew of strong-bodied, weak-minded thugs, and a lot of good luck and gold will spurt out of your operation.

 

I just found this thread, for some WEIRD reason I kinda like the wheel and the history behind it. If it was mine I would keep it if only for a great conversaation piece.
I did find this little blurb...in all fairness to Spring

Before removing any existing patina from brass or copper pieces, it is important to have them appraised by an expert. In some cases, removing the patina from a vintage or antique piece can seriously lower the value of the piece. Consider coming by one of our Olde Good Things, locations and letting us take a look at your item to ensure that your items retain their full value.

 

My main rant on polishing items is if they are sterling

 

Another note on the cleaning/polishing.... The buildup of dust, tarnish, and paint was only about 40 years old or younger. The wheel was being used by patrons until the late eighties or early nineties. There it would have also been kept dusted and polished by housekeeping.

Just something to think about. It wasn't a 100 year old ancient tarnish. The decision was made to restore it as close to original as possible and preserve it. Not only was it less interesting in its found form because you could not see that it was handmade or engraved, but it was much less pleasing to the eye. In its intended form it is kind of stunning.

 

Which is why most of us are here.
Some real nasties over there.

 

It was quite surprising, to say the least. I do understand people have varying opinions, protocols, and ideas. I just thought I'd give that one a shot and those people are just plain aggressive. I find you folks to be very civil and funny, too…. Thanks again. This board has a great atmosphere.

 

Which board was it?

 

AM is back posting there and the Brasso troll seems to be gone

 

He's not indy things?

 

What is AM posting under these days?
I know what he lists under, but I don't think I have seen it on the Boards or Groups.

 

Redpix12