19th Century Gambling Wheel Treasure

There are differing opinions on whether to refinish, not refinish, how to refinish, etc. In my experience, I do NOT refinish if I'm going to offer the item for sale. As silverthwaite pointed out, polishing silver to get rid of tarnish is good. Polishing brass and removing the patina is generally bad. If you are keeping the item and you want it to be sparkling like new, by all means refinish away. However, the value of an item to a collector may well be in whatever you remove in your haste to uncover the origins. Supposing those painted numbers were put on by someone more famous than the person who cast the wheel? I'm not trying to make you feel bad, nor are others here. I'm saying that there is more than one way to skin a cat and the decisions you make regarding objects for sale may be quite different from the decisions you make if you are the final owner. I find the English, for example, don't care for original condition on many items that would cause delight in an American buyer. This is not a figment of our imagination. It happens. Again, because I tend to repeat myself, study your marketplace prior to doing anything. It would be shame if you spent many hours slaving over a refinishing project and then found out you'd actually lost money. I started helping my parents in their shop when I was eight and I am constantly amazed at what people buy and what they will pay for things that I wouldn't give a second glance.

 

If something has already been altered from the original (and, poorly at that) I would think restoring it would be the thing to do.

To polish just for the sake of making it more attractive - no.

 

The way I heard it, brass gets polished, bronze doesn't. That said, I generally leave bad enough alone when it comes to metals. It's easier for me and saves grief.

 

I think you should start a new thread with the dancer. We've had these "Who is in the photo?" threads going before.

 

What a cool looking piece. I've never seen anything like that.
Great conversation piece indeed !

 

I'm thrilled about all of the responses. It has taken me years to calm myself down and decide not to melt down the wheel for the gold. I'm convinced that it has much more value as a historical piece.

I don't consider polishing and refinishing the same thing. The grime, dust, tarnish, and crude paint were not "finishes" on the wheel. These were things that occurred from neglect and lack of understanding of the numbers. Again, this wheel was bound for the dumpster and looked like trash. I actually saved it because I thought I could maybe use the brass pole in a future project. It looked like a painted old garden decoration and it wasn't until some of the water soluble paint was removed that you could see what was underneath. Once the brass was cleaned and gently polished, you could see a true patina with staining, knicks, and erosion where it was frequently handled. Do not mistake tarnish and filth with patina in brass or silver.

It was the right decision. This is as close to the original status I can take it without replacing any parts, painting, or making assumptions. The preservation of the item in as close to original condition was my concern. I grew up restoring and preserving furniture and have a lot of experience with brass and wood antiques, including candlesticks, clocks, and other decor. Trust me, I didn't attack this wheel in haste and I was very professional and thorough when I decided to undergo the task.

The photos are great. You can get lost in them. I have a feeling that the lady with the fan may be the daughter of a wealthy merchant in Dawson. She does not have the look of a performer. The belly dancer is likely the most modest belly dancer I've ever seen. Her belly isn't exposed, but covered by an undergarment. They were likely colored at the same time because the blue in the fan matches the blue on the belly dancer, and vice versa with the pink.. These have both been reframed and hung now safely at my mother's house so she may enjoy them for the rest of her life. Women seem to get a kick out of these two and I'm sure men did a hundred years ago, too. In my opinion, some of the old aircraft photos are more historically significant. It is all so much fun though.

I have a lot of work to do today, but when times slows up for me a bit, I'll post a thread for just some of my photos. I'd like to do one in the future for my Vienna Regulator and early Seikosha clocks too. For now though, I want to understand this wheel. How and why do you think this treasure is hidden here? Where and when do you think it was made?

Cheers.

 

I'd get a second XRF

 

I actually paid for two. One on the filings from the wheel itself and one on a pin so I could match the brass if I wanted to have replacements done. They tested the filings twice because they weren't expecting to see those results either. Both tests were nearly identical.

The density, color, malleability, oxidation, and corrosion stress fracture are consistent with a low percentage gold/copper alloy, too.

The test was done at Oxford Assaying and Refining where I bring gold I mine to sell. I trust them. At fifty dollars a shot though, two tests are enough for me. I guessed it was a copper/silver alloy before the test. I have to admit, I was not expecting any gold at all in the alloy. Before the paint was removed I thought it was iron fly wheel due to the weight…

This paper is one of several on fracturing of copper/gold alloys. In general it is thought that when the %Au in these alloys is less than 40ish, fracturing becomes possible and much more prevalent the lower that percentage goes.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/238363133_Stress_corrosion_cracking_of_18_carat_gold

 

When someone suggests a second opinion, they probably mean from a different doctor

 

I see, said the blind man.

I'm a little dull. Sometimes I need it spelled out. Haha

I think I could do that. Here in Alaska it is tough, there aren't many xrf machines in businesses. Looking online I see there are a few assayers that do this through mail and are quite a bit cheaper than Oxford.

After examining the metal with a loupe every now and then, one conclusion I can make myself is that the metal is far from homogenous. There are small areas that don't tarnish mixed with areas that tarnish dark grayish. On the back the old verdigris was faintly visible after a long period of time but just ever so slightly green. There are lots of bubbles and changes in the structure of the metal that remind me of old loaf silver bars.

I will mention that the xrf readout for the white brass pins was spot on. It did not have the exotic metals shown in the wheel readout. Also it is known that Platinum group metals, copper, iron, and others also occur naturally in gold ore in small amounts. One logical explanation could be that this was the leftover "heavies" after lots of gold refining during the rush… Maybe spiked with a little gold or they were producing so much that the 15% in this slipped through. I doubt that though. I'm just voicing possibilities I've considered.

 

It is just a blessing. I have researched tons of old photographs in the library and museum of old parlors and such. I have seen lots of wheels. I've also seen tons of wheels online. I cannot find anything even close. But there are some amazing gambling wheels out there!

Thank you so much for looking. Someone out there will see something that rings a bell sooner or later. I've thought about digitizing the font just so people can use it. It is pretty cool. After a lot of typeface research I believe it is a didone typeface of a Bodoni variation. It is slightly more ornate than most other examples in some numbers, but simpler in others, like the 1 and 7.

 

Funny you mention The Maltese Falcon. This wheel has brought some paranoia. I've considered someone may be out there searching. Maybe that it why it has taken me several years to publicly seek help with it like this.

 

I'm a little exhausted from plowing snow all night and pulling a full shift at my "day job" before and after plowing. So, please excuse incomplete thoughts or typos I've been up for 30hours and 26 of those were work. I also don't want to appear that I'm talking to myself on this thread now, but I learned some important information on the recent history of the wheel.

I thought it had been stored in the attic at this property as part of a collection. While speaking with a regular in the lounge tonight, I asked him a question, followed by another, and subsequently a few more. I have been bringing this regular a newspaper almost every shift when he arrives in the lounge for more than two years now.

I asked him how long he had been coming here. He said essentially since it opened in 1985. I then asked if he remembered any of the old antiques that were around before the remodel. His eyes brightened when he remembered them but quickly saddened as he looked around and didn't see any. I told him the story about how most of it made it to the landfill a few years back. We both gnashed our teeth and imagined what was thrown away and who could have made such a stupid decision.

Then, I asked him if he ever saw a couple gambling wheels around. He got excited and said he used to sit around a long time ago with a few friends and put a dollar here or there on a number and play. He showed me where each one was in the lounge almost thirty years ago. I guess they put them in the attic after a while because it wasn't legit for your patrons to be organizing gambling on the devices whether they were decor or not. Alaska wasn't really lawless anymore.

Now, this lounge may have been built as part of a hotel in the 80's, but it retained the name of the restaurant and club that was bulldozed to make room for it. As I understand, the collection from the previous place may have just been moved over to keep the same feel, too. This is a very historical property and area that could be thought of as "Sin City went Lumberjack."

Here is a clip from Wikipedia on Mr. Whitekeys. The owner before the hotel replaced the original building.
"The Fly By Night Club, along with the Flying Machine, were the last occupants in a historic building on the eastern shore of Lake Spenard, originally the home of the Idle Hour Supper Club and not far from the site of Joe Spenard's original resort. The building was demolished in 1984 to make way for a large hotel, currently the Millennium Alaskan Hotel.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Whitekeys

Some history on the town…
http://www.flybynightclub.com/hist_spenard.html

The H.C. Evans wheel may have been purchased new just for one of these places in Spenard. This one though, it must have come from somewhere else. Or it was commissioned by some talented individual to make up here. I have little doubt now that this wheel was being used for gambling in Spenard now.

It may have belonged to Joe Spenard himself. I am going to search for photos of the interior of his old establishments. They call this little town, Spenard, the miracle mile. I'll say...
http://www.seniorvoicealaska.com/st...oe-spenards-miracle-mile-still-grows/530.html

Another interesting little piece of history is that Kermit Roosevelt, son of Teddy, killed himself 70 years ago on the same property. If I told how I found out he didn't die on Fort Richardson, but rather in the company of gambler's and prostitutes in Spenard at the Idle Hour Supper Club you would have a hard time believing me.

Life is very interesting and I am very tired. I hope this is interesting to you too. I think many of the things I've shared were on that property for a long time. Sooner or later we will get to the sculptor or original owner of this wheel and maybe understand why.

Goodnight.

 

That was interesting! Thanks for posting the additional info.

 

I think you will get a more easily-explainable composition analysis if you turn the whole wheel over to whomever is to do the analysis, tell them of any limitations on what areas they can use, and pick up the wheel and the analysis when they are done. Seriously.

 

I'm not sure if anyone in Alaska does such a thing. Oxford assays raw gold all day long for miners. I suspect they take it seriously with the kind of money they deal in. I do plan on sending some samples to other assayers.

Handing the wheel over to someone else is out of the question. Right now it is in a vault. It is the only way I can sleep.

 

Simply amazing. My friend had this photo. I think he is going to give it up to me fairly easily. This was likely the home of the wheel for a long time, but not its origin. The reverse treasure hunt….

 

I had to get her out to collect a couple more samples for XRF tests. I couldn't resist taking a few more photos. Here is some eye candy….


The seam in the brass pole which appears to be almost all copper, at least in color.




Center of wheel wing and artichoke detail.




Verdigris on back of the wheel and old written numbers. I believe the back has never been polished or cleaned. That verdigris is the result of 100-200 years, however old this wheel is. I had to clean the pins and nuts because the corrosion was eating through the pins, I believe that is why so many may be missing.




The only hallmark again. This is with the wheel facing what I believe to be up, with the 50 at the top. Maybe it isn't a 35. Maybe someone else can see something here? There also seems to be a heavy gold concentration in this area...




It almost looks like there were spots made for gems. I am always surprised by the weight of just the wheel because it is very thin due to the "skeletonized" cast. It is about as thin as a Hershey's bar in most places, give or take.





Enjoy. I am learning all kinds of things about your items on this forum…

Thank you.

 

Well, I finally got a good sample. I took it from the center of the wheel on the back. It was already a deep place in the alloy and I feel a good representative spot. I remembered where it wasn't I but the not so antique conscientious assayer at Oxford took the filings from. It seems so noticeable now. I'll include a photo, but I suppose it shows where that first analysis came from.

On a side note I got a good feel for what tools the engraver would need. The metal is nice and soft, but not too soft. A little chisel with a small piece of wood would do it. I don't know, but it is fun imagining how he engraved these numbers. Also, the detail. Was that all sculpted into wet sand as far as the bulk of the wheel goes?

If you keep clicking on these photos it will take you to a zoomed version...

I have to include a photo of her after a few years in the vault and a little tarnished. I won't be cleaning her, but taking her right back.



This is where the guy at Oxford did the first analysis on the back. Little file marks are but a small price to pay for a great discovery. What is interesting to me is that there is only a little tarnish after a couple years in this spot. It looks almost like silver tarnish.



This is where I took my sample. I did it in the very center where the wheel had been milled out to accommodate the spindle. It also hides the marks. I hate to get at this thing anywhere but you have to do what you have to do.



The sample shavings and my calloused hand.

 

Thanks for the new photos. I would bet that the analysis comes back showing a higher % of gold in that location.