help to date and id this vase / jar

From my point of view, however, they come out of the glaze, contextual to the creation of ceramics.
Ok let's wait for gianluca72's photos, to understand, even if I realize that 50x photos are very difficult.

 

Here I am friends, then, the photos are not very good, the best that the camera allowed me, in macro function. Hope that's enough. What I can say is this:
I have seen these black dots with my diamond magnifier and I can guarantee that there are thousands of black dots coming out of the enamel, basically the enamel is "broken" by the dot, which stands out, passing through it.
There are also thousands of other black and "white" dots that are trapped in the enamel, "inside" it.
In some areas, I can spot black dots that come out of the first layer of enamel but then fail to come out of the second layer.
So it seems to me that Anabel is right with her previous message.
A first layer of glaze and therefore the first decoration was originally made, simultaneously with the creation of the ceramic, and then it would seem that a second layer of glaze, of "reinforcement" was applied, covering about half of the dots that were above the enamel itself.
Thanks to Rec and Anabel P. for their precious help and of course thanks to all of you

 

Good job.....I could not do as well !!!!!!

 

thanks

 

Very good Gianluca

 

As i said before I agree to disagree

 

Sorry I’m late to the party, but I don’t check in every day. So, IMHO, the vase or jug or what ever you would like to call it, is a folk pottery from the decoration. I can see why OBB thought possibly Chinese, but I don't think so in this case. I can’t for the life of me see why this would have been re-glazed unless done soon afterwards if the first glazing was not good. Age? Not easy to determine because folk art motifs are used similarly for many years. My guess would be late 19th c/early 20th c. The horizontal striping may be due to the construction of the vase. It may possibly be that the main body was coil construction and it somehow shows in the oxidation. I note that it doesn’t occur on the neck of the vase. So, don’t clean if you are selling. It if you are keeping it, then the choice is yours. Although charming, I think it’s value may be modest.

 

a nice team work

 

There is often a confusion in discussing pottery, since potters may use different terminology than collectors or the general public. Plus additional problems may develop when discussions include those whose native language is not English. So I am "speaking" here as both a potter, and as someone who is used to American English.

Some of the posts do not use terms a potter would use. I assume "glaze" is what was meant, rather than "enamel," for example. And this was thrown on "potter's wheel, not made on a "lathe."

The small dark spots and burst bubbles are commonly called "pinholes," or "pitting,"and are a result of the chemical reaction of tiny bubbles of gases escaping from the boiling glaze during the firing. The bubbles can happen anywhere within the glaze, or on the surface, where they may have burst, leaving sharp edges

A crackle glaze can be deliberately created, or can be a defective result of the formula of the glaze not being designed for the particular clay body, causing them to shrink at different rates. And it can occur during firing, or slowly, at any time over the life of the pot.

Pin holes or crackling can also be a result of not being correctly fired. The kiln may have not been fired to the right temperature, it may not have been fired long enough, or held at a particular temperature for long enough. It may have cooled too fast. Whole books have been devoted to this sort of problem, so it can't really be solved here. This pot probably dates to a time before the emphasis on studying chemistry and science in connection with making pottery, was even considered.

All these things can be purposely created to make a pot look older than it is, especially if it is buried in dirt for some time, and then cleaned up. Not saying that's what happened here, only that it is possible to reproduce all those effects. Just something to be aware of, and why determining age from a photo is sometimes difficult.

One other thing, cobalt, which produces the blue, has been used on glazed pottery since at least the 7th century in China, 9th century in the Middle East, and long before a Swedish chemist "discovered" it in 1735. It may not have been called Cobalt, but it was a result of that same ingredient being used.

 

In fact, I often use google translate, being my English, scholastic, and it often leads us to use similar terms but not specifically appropriate. I myself, who am not English, often have to correct the translations of the superficial google translator.
I can imagine the mood of a UK native when he reads an English translated from another language he will surely laugh at it ha ha
I find your speech very nice, which allows us to improve ourselves as regards the linguistic aspect, and therefore I thank you.

finally, completely agree

Totally agree

In fact, I often find on the web some "ming" sold by important auction houses, even online, which leave me many doubts ....
experts, intermediaries like Catawiki and similar platforms, are always called upon to judge a value from photos, and often, too often, are wrong. Even in numismatics, in philately, people often judge too superficially and make mistakes, based only on photos.
This is the difference between an online purchase and a personal purchase at an auction house, or at an antique store.
However, I am sure that if I had this vase (or pot? ah ah) in my hands, I would confirm its historical value and its authenticity, its natural oxidation.

 

Thank you for your contribution. I promised not to respond anymore but since you are a potter I hope you will shed some light on the following so that I can better understand how to interpret deadbubbles

I understood from the deadbubles studies that a pinhole is darker in color when it has been exposed to elements of nature for a long time.
In addition to all other known techniques, I see that there is a tendency that the presence of dead bubbles, the shape and color of dead bubbles have been used more often in recent years to analyze the age of a porcelain and to determine the authenticity of a porcelain. Because creating a dead bubble with correct color depth is somewhat difficult to imitate and would be very costly for forger.

assuming that this vase is not a fake; doesn't the dark brown to black pinholes show us that this vase is quite old?

Although we did not get a microscopic view of the pinholes,
judging the photos of Gianluca.. I see that part of the black pinholes are now covered with blue and clear glass and others only with clear glass. Top layer does not appear to be affected. I don't see any crater on the area where the bubbles are burst

what does the presence of other colors or clear glass in the black / brown pinhole say?

what it means if the top layer does not have a crater shape while the pinhole is dark / brown

I dont understand what you trying to say. coud you explain a bit more?

as a collector I use the presence / absence of a certain color in addition to all other elements to determine the authenticity of a porcelain. For example, I know that kangxi blue is a different color blue than a ming blue or a blue color that you see on a 19th century Italian porcelain or an English one.

 

Thanks for your support, which is your dating poll?

 

Exactly! This is my field and I can say that you are 100% right

 

I love this post, and frankly, I read your other posts always with great interest. You provide such excellent information is a highly digestible form. Thank you.

 

It looks 1800s possibly around 1880.

Somebody will probably tell me that I'm wrong lol. There are so many replies on here I didn't read many of them.

 

hello gianluca,thanks for asking me,so here's my opinion,if this asian then i think this probably from southern china or maybe southeast asia,to be exactly vietnamese,i don't know if this is right or wrong,but the base remind me of vietnamese,flower is the famous pattern of vietnamese ware,19th century could be a right date for this one,good luck!

 

Thanks

 

Thanks