help to date and id this vase / jar

It's deliberate craquelure, I'd say, but with serious age to it. Off the wall and off the top of my head, I actually think it might be Chinese.

 

I am sorry but I'm one of those that did not receive notice of either tag. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this piece is outside my area of expertise. I wish you the best of luck with it.
Don

 

Thanks

 

It seems quite obvious to me that you are right, it goes through and not under. The glaze is contemporary with the ceramic.
Obviously, the enamel suffers less cracking, as its consistency is more elastic and protective.
Where the thickness of the glaze is greater, the crackle will be less.
I agree with Gianluca72 and through these last photos I confirm the dating of the 19th century, probably the first half.

 

Thanks

 

I'm not here to contradict you, and I respect your opinion, but this isn't an old intentional crackle.
This is a natural crackle to which rust plays its consequential game and the style is certainly European, perhaps Italian, absolutely not Chinese.

 

it goes through and not under.

That's what I thought I saw...........but I doubted myself..
( & that's why I don't collect pottery! )

 

I still think that the body antique is but the decoration most likely added in 20th century and fired again. I agree to disagree

 

thanks a lot

 

these are very deep dead bubbles and now appear to be under an unaffected glaze. is it possible that you can post with 50 or 100X enlarged photos?

 

Antiquers.........becoming Archeology ???? Heehehe!!!!

 

i'm only triying to help

 

i'll try my best for tomorrow, thanks for your help

 

The reasoning of the bubbles fades into the air as you notice that the rust spots come out of the enamel itself.
The spots of rust are triggered at the intersections of the crackle, where they then find the space to escape. Since, as you can see, these rust spots also come out of the glaze, this means that the crackle passes through it, and where the glaze is thinner, the crackle is best seen, where instead the glaze is thicker, the crackle occurs less. Furthermore, since rust is found on both crackle and glaze, and that its oxidative state is homogeneously at the same level, this proves that the glaze is the same age as the ceramic, and therefore it is not possible that the vase was decorated later. This is a 19th century vase, not because I say so, but because it is the oxidative state of the iron oxide that affirms it.

 

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sorry, my english is not that good and probably i am expressing myself not a correct manner. yet, I will try again and I promise this is the last time
in the pic above i'm pointing to the dead air bubbles (= a glaze defect that involves bubbles on fired glaze surface that frequently burst and create hard craters, some with sharpe edges others round)

In our case; If the decoration was applied at the same time as the vase self, then these burst air bubbles should not be covered by a new layer of glaze. that is the reason why I keep saying that the vase was decorated at a much later time than the vase itself.
and as I mentiond earlier " I agree to disagree"

PS: which rust spots do you refer to?
left: dead bubbles; Right: air bubbles

 

Hi your English is excellent
Before answering you exhaustively, we need to tune in and understand each other better
I am sending you a photo, according to these "black points" what are they?
(Then I will answer you in full)

 

dead bubbles.

 

ok, if these dead bubbles are both below and above the glaze at the same time (the ones I have indicated to you are above) (the ones you have highlighted are below) and if the glaze has been applied later, why are there also dead bubbles above it ? Assuming you are right, we would find ourselves saying that a first enamel decoration was done in the same historical period as the vase's creation and then later in time another layer of enamel was applied. So the original decoration of the enamel was there from the beginning, and then another layer was applied later (perhaps the enamel was faded, there may be dozens of reasons).
Do you agree ?

 

Yes and no.
Yes; because a dead air bubble may form during the first baking process. After the initial firing process, the vase can be re-fired after decorating and that would place the dead air bubbles under a new glass layer.

No; because the black color we see in this vase could not arise if the dead air bubbles were covered with a new layer of glaze shortly after the first firing. The black color in the bubbles indicates that these bubbles would have been in contact with air and other natural elements for a long time.

almost forgotten. i dont think the bubbles are on the surface. if we can get a 50X pic we porbabbly clearly see all bubbles are covered under an unaffected glaze