Featured Antique Lamp? Beautiful, looks to be ceramic and iron

No way! That is fascinating. Where would I go about finding thousand year old pottery pieces? Especially something similar to this piece?

It's no bother that it isn't worth anything, we are not planning on selling it now. This is going to be something we keep in our family, it's such an interesting piece and has a nice little story about being a $3 auction find!

I am just tickled pink about this. Thank you all so much.

I guess my only question now is, how do I go about discovering how old the ceramic really is? I would love to be able to solve that piece of the puzzle.

I'm guessing its not out of the question that it is 12 or 13th century Iranian piece? But how would I prove this? Would an antiques appraiser necessarily know something like this or would I be looking for someone specialized? How much can I expect to pay for an appraisal?

 

I think there's a lion there of Persian or Assyrian type. (Maybe a horse as well?)


It's not inconceivable that this is a reconstructed piece from an archeological site.

I really do hope it is ancient.

 

That would just be SO cool! Imagine owing something so old, I would feel truly lucky.

I'm going to be breaking out my good camera today and taking much more detailed photos. I look forward to sharing them with you guys!

 

Wow you were absolutely right, there is some kind of lion or jaguar type creature! In fact there seems to be three or more. I HAD NOT noticed that! What a good eye you have. I can't believe I missed that!!!

 

Lion?


Horse (and rider)?



Wouldn't it be wonderful if this was Samanid, or even Sasanian, pottery? I'd be green with envy.

 

Why do you think I asked for a close up of the animals? .....What animals?
Seriously, it would help date the vessel. By the way, jaguars are in the Americas, not Asia. They could be panthers.

 

It might be worth taking to a good museum locally, if you have one, and see what they say. I'd be careful taking it apart; you don't know what glues were used or how good they still are.

 

Be careful, but I'd take the lamp parts off. My conjecture is similar to what has been said before -- newt item in not so good condition, made into a lamp to be beautiful and useful. Key words would be Persian, Iranian, maybe even Iznik (although this isn't like iznik pottery per se) in your searches. Very cool item, and glad you're excited!

 

Sassy, whatever it may be "worth", I happen to think that this lamp is beyond cool! I have a feeling that if it was in the Monif collection (perhaps before it was broken - or maybe not?) it was/is something special.

Whatever it was, and whatever it may turn out to be, I am excited that you & DH (dear Hubby) found it on one of your early forays into antiquing!

Way to go!

 

Okay guys! I had some issues with my camera but here are some closeups of the jar! There are two stags, one looking backwards and one looking forwards. There is some kind of large cat, panther? It almost looks to have a beaklike mouth. One side is impossible to see but I believe it is another stag.

Unfortunately I couldn't upload these files to this forum directly as the files are too large, but here is the imgur link to the photos.

https://imgur.com/a/6ZUfO

 

Hi! Make your photos 480xwhatever number is given and you'll never have trouble.

 

And remember that we won't usually follow links until someone has been around awhile.
I'm sure you understand this.

 

Oh ok no worries I will try to figure that out then.

 

Although the Chinese made very similar items I think you got lucky. Looks to be a Kashan storage vessel converted into a lamp. it was a very common to turn old pots in lamps during the mid 20th century, you could even buy kits to do it yourself. the condition is to be expected from something that has been dug up. The dull damaged side was probably in the ground with the rest exposed.

The age is a little easier thanks to the Mongal invasions of the 1300 century very little got produced from then until the 16th century from what I have been told. So you gave 12-13 century or 16th-17th. I am guessing earlier.

Condition again is no problem. items like this are expected to be damaged and are often museum restored. By that I mean restored with the damage showing as white unglazed parts. Value is not as effected as a result as it would be on later ceramics.

I of course could be wrong but the Kashan orginals often have an oily lustre to the glaze that the Chinese don't so i think it is right.

 

You're right, Kashan lustre has no equal in antique lustre ware.
I was thinking Kashan as well (and hoping, because of an ancestral connection), but I haven't yet found Kashan ware with a relief frieze like this one. Which doesn't mean it can't be Kashan, of course.

Kashan kept on producing lustre ware, though with the restriction of depicting people and animals. During the later Mongol period the Mongols took on the Fatimid faith, which did allow the depiction of animals, so a piece like this could have been made. And Timur (Mongol-Turkic), who ruled Iran from 1370-1405, was a great patron of the arts.

Museums collect from a historic viewpoint. As long as a piece is a good example of a certain style or era, it is fine. But it is the collectors who determine the market, therefore the value.
Most museums can't pay the price rich collectors pay, and do their own, deliberately visible, restoration. White restoration also serves to illustrate that a certain item came from an archeological site, which makes the story more interesting to visitors. But it does nothing for the value. The damage to this vessel just points to a later breakage, and sadly diminishes the value significantly.

Having said that, being an extremely modest collector, I would buy this vessel (without the lamp) in a heartbeat...... as long as the price was right. I wouldn't buy to sell, I would keep it as a connection to the world of my ancestors, so I wouldn't mind the damage. It is a gorgeous piece.

 

Although it would be nice to think these items exist without damage, almost none do outside of museums and the very best collections. Values are there for pretty much divided between how much of the original item exists and how much is restored. I know several dealers in antiquities in London who specialize in ceramics from Muslim lands. The market for these things is exceptionally strong with many new museums and collectors hoping to build collections. I know you said "Most museums can't pay the price rich collectors pay" but Islamic ceramics are an exception with no limit to how deep some pockets are. No offense intended but I would heavily suggest the owner not sell it outside of a good auction house with the right attribute if they decide not to keep it.

If anyone wants to learn more I can recommend
Ceramics from Islamic Lands by Oliver Watson as a book.It catalogues the al-Sabah Collection in Kuwait and is part sponsored hence the low price for such a huge book.

 

I know the book, it is impressive. Oliver Watson also wrote something on forgeries, which only emphasizes the need for verification by an expert. Should Sassy ever want to sell it, that is.
It is good that this thread came to the foreground again, it sent me back to research some more. I found a similar technique from Kashan, greenish turquoise glaze and molding, though a different subject matter:
http://auctions.roseberys.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/173/lot/79963/?url=/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/173/
This item has some restoration, but is in a much better general condition than Sassy's piece. On the other hand Sassy's piece has those lovely animals.

 

I am so lucky to have found this forum! I never would have known what I had, thank you all so much. To think that this was almost thrown out! I feel so happy that I was able to save it.

My husband and I are just tickled pink. We have no idea where to go from here. If it's worth under $500, we would like to just keep it. It is such an unbelievably cool thing, to own something so ancient. That has quite a lot of value to us as it is. If it is something that is worth more than that, we would definitely be open to selling it. I would also love for it to go somewhere that can appreciate it and take care of it. How do I go about finding collectors? This is all so new to us, I have no idea where to start!

If we end up keeping it, it will be left to a museum when we die. Can't even believe it, what a find. I will never find another like this in my lifetime.

Thank you all from the very bottom of my heart! You have made me very happy. I'm glad I could share this with all of you.

 

@Sassy , check your inbox.

 

Hey guys! Just a little update to say there is no update LOL

I've been busy and afraid to remove the lamp part from the vessel, which is required for an appraisal. I had done some research after talking to you guys and believe it is from the Sasanian Empire, going by the turquoise glaze and comparing it to other Sasanian pottery.

I have fallen more in love with it since looking at it every day and I am not sure I will bother selling. From what I am seeing, it would not be worth any more than a couple thousand at the absolute MOST and I don't see myself letting go of it for that amount. It makes me very happy to look at and to own. I would still love to know definitively what century it is from, but it can be tricky to accurately date early Persian ceramics apparently.