Any idea of the age of my bronze kohl bottle?

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by Any Jewelry, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    A little bronze Arab bottle, for kohl, eye make up. The applicator is wood and could have been replaced at any time. There is no thread for a screw-in applicator, which is what many Arab kohl bottles have, but I have seen these wooden applicators on antique pieces.
    The bottle itself is 7.9 cm/3.07" high.
    Can anyone help me with a guesstimate of the age of the bronze?
    Thanks for looking.
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    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  2. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    No idea on age, think you'd need to find a museum or book with examples of them, match the style, and use the dates someone put on the other specimens. Patinas can differ with the particular alloy used, environment, etc as I'm sure you know. Note that the underside has same patina as the rest, not sure what that means in this case.
     
  3. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

  4. coreya

    coreya Well-Known Member

    I have been trying to ID a small metal bottle that I found in my Mothers stuff after she passed away in 1999 and Thanks to the posters on this forum I finally have an answer! Thanks to all that contribute to this Forum!

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  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Thanks spring and raver, I've been doing some research online, but came up with nothing, only 20th century bottles.
    So I contacted the anthropological museum in Leiden. They said, yes it is Middle Eastern, there are no publications on antique kohl bottles, and because their collection of kohl bottles doesn't include anything older than 19th century, they couldn't date this one. This means that they think it is older than 19th century, which was my thinking as well. These are times I wish my father was still around, he was a historian as well as metallurgist, and dated a lot of things for myself and others.
    I'll ask some other museums, I'm thinking of the V&A in the UK, maybe some in the Middle East.
     
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  6. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Yours is a classic shape, but nicer than many. The top of the applicator has a floral shape, a reference to paradise you see in a lot of Middle Eastern art. Sometimes there are birds as well.
    Here is one of mine, the bottle has an unusual shape, said to be 1930s. But as you can see the decoration on the applicator is not as nicely defined as yours:
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  7. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    If you do contact the V&A please let me know how you get on as I've been meaning to do that myself but I keep putting it off because I don't know how and I'm a little scared.
     
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  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I just received an automatic reply from the Asia department of the V&A saying: "We receive an extremely high volume of enquiries. We aim to reply within the next 20 working days, but this is not always possible. Your patience is appreciated."
    I can imagine they do, so I'll wait and see.
    I'll see about other museums as well, saw the site of the new Islamic museum in Doha, but I get the impression they don't look at private people's objects.
    For anyone who hasn't seen the building, designed by I.M. Pei, yet:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Mansons2005

    Mansons2005 Nasty by Nature, Curmudgeon by Choice


    Another wonderful building, one that I am certain is designed to function perfectly for its purpose, with just enough regional and ethnic undertones to allow no doubt on its purpose or general location...................but I think Pei is getting just a tad stale.............He is the first architect that came to mind at first glimpse. I see no real innovation or inspiration.
     
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  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I don't think this is his best design, and was a little disappointed that he only drew inspiration from one building, an Egyptian mosque complex. But if I still designed like that at 90, I'd be very happy.
     
  11. Mansons2005

    Mansons2005 Nasty by Nature, Curmudgeon by Choice


    I see that inspiration (though I had no idea it was from an existing building), but that may be what "disappoints"...........it is a bit obvious and not translated well. But I do admire the structure for what it is.


    And if I may say so myself, there are many who "still have it" at ninety (or d@mned close to it)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Though I could not have designed such as this at 25, so it is all relative......................
     
  12. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    My daughter took architecture for three years and dropped out to pursue computer science. She said the professors gave special attention to the students who 'followed' well known architects and it felt stale. Unfortunately, architects are like engineers. Once they've got a popular design, they tend to fall back on the basic premise.
     
  13. Mansons2005

    Mansons2005 Nasty by Nature, Curmudgeon by Choice

    If there are two professions in the "building trade" that hate each other (and NOT cordially!) it is architects and the engineers..................The architect designs it, the engineer has to BUILD it....................

    Me Da was an engineer, and I can not count the times he would come home screaming "What f@@k@@g IDIOT designed this building? Two pilings will NOT hold up a six story building - I don't care if he wants it to look like its floating! You can not put a window, a fireplace, and a doorway in the same six foot space and expect me to put in an AC vent and a plumbing run!"
     
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  14. gregsglass

    gregsglass Well-Known Member

    Hi,
    In "defence", my other half designed a rear addition to a house including a kitchen. The homeowners wife was in tears because she wanted a window over her stove. It was explained that it was NOT good policy. She had the "engineer" move the window so it was centered over her stove. Seven months later her curtains on the window caught on fire and burned down the entire house. Since the architect would not sign off on the changes the insurance company did not pay for the damage.
    greg
     
    kyratango, Any Jewelry and 808 raver like this.

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