Featured Unique Coat of Arms Seal from Poland - Three Axes and an Oak Tree

It doesn't glow under black light. I'll take more detailed photos later.

 

The textures of the background may be there to indicate color/metal:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/41617/41617-h/images/fig035.png


Gold & blue.

I just wanted to rule out something. It has been ruled out.

 

Thank you. That would never have even occurred to me. Knowing the possible color combo will help me as I continue searching Google images.

Can you tell me what you wanted to rule out?

 

If the handle got that way from being buried in inimical conditions, & piece has not been cleaned, why isn't there crud in that lovely crevice between the wooden handle & the metal housing for the matrix?

There have been times when I really thought I got away with a steal out from under the noses of others who compete with me for certain things. Then I get it & find that my gamble (e.g., seller says glass but I think I see stone) did not pay off & realize there wasn't more competition because others knew better than to bid. Despite the condition of the other parts, I think this would not have sold for the price it did if more knowledgeable collectors had seen it & believed it to be an antique engraved amethyst. It's an indirect way of getting an expert opinion.

Sorry if I seem to be a spoilsport. I know you want to know exactly what you have & the only way to get at the truth is to raise the objections & see if they can be countered.

 

I appreciate your honesty and straightforwardness. I know that I've had my fair share of mistakes like that.

I looked at the crevice under a loupe, and there is no dirt or crud... However, examining the wood section in closer detail under the loupe, I did come across several unusual pale white filaments which look almost organic, like the shed cast offs of larvae skin. I actually wonder...could the damage to the wooden handle have possibly been caused by insects?

 

It was a really left field notion, but because of the colors it shows in photos, I had to wonder if it was a color change sapphire, as unlikely as that was. They look about like this in daylight; under UV they look deep red with bright green glints. You would have known you had a weird stone in front of you. It's also unlikely because it's really, really difficult to engrave sapphire/ruby. Corundum is used to etch other stones.

I have been casting around in my mind to see if I can remember stone seals that were faceted on the back, not just glass ones. I do. Some spinner fob seals have a faceted stone, most commonly a citrine. It's weird to set a faceted gem with the facets covered up in a desk seal.

 

I spotted those in the pix seller provided. They looked very straight up & down. I did not know what to make of them. Fungus? You can see them so much better. Lignin is really tough, so wood doesn't get like this just from getting wet, something has to eat at it, but soil is full of bacteria & other hungry things. Is the degree of disintegration of the wood consistent with the degree of corrosion to the metal?

I just have so many questions. How would it end up buried in the first place? This did not belong to some well to do Roman. In the scheme of things it is relatively modern, even if it is Georgian. I can see a fob getting lost, but this is meant for use on a desk.

The matrix itself looks gorgeous. In the parlance of our time, think we should continue to interrogate the piece, but if the conclusion is that item is fraudulent, you have my blessing & encouragement to do something else with the matrix if you can get it out without damage.

 

Under a loupe, the metal has a varied patina. There is some greenish-blue pinpricks of verdigris (or similar) that sit raised upon the surface. The patina is mainly varying shades of dark-brown and rust-brown, but I can also see some light gold areas that almost look like gilding. No evident corrosion of the metal, unless the greenish-blue pinpricks are bronze disease.

I don't plan to do anything with the piece at this time. I don't think I'd trust myself to remove the matrix safely, so what I'm probably going to do is leave it alone until I can find a replacement handle.

 

Not sure how a 'disease' would differ from the blue-green patina bronzed develops with time & weather. My desktop photo is a detail from this massive bronze gate:



Gilt brass would be typical when the housing is not solid gold. With both in front of you, do you think the metal has suffered as much as the wood has? I'm tellin' ya, angry wolverines.

 

If you have the determination, this site, which seems geared to kids, will teach you to write a blazon, a proper heraldic description of the arms. It's where I got the info on hatching used for colors.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/41617/41617-h/41617-h.htm#page572

 

Did you just say "geared to kids?" It made my head explode just skimming it.

 

Don't try to read all of it. Scroll down to where you start seeing the sections that break down the different elements, giving the names of things, with particular attention to the section on blazons. Axes & lions are taken up. You can use Ctrl+F to search for particular terms, although many are used repeatedly & can be a bit much to wade through.

 

Just found this very useful Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_(heraldry)

You have a lion couchant guardant (or gardant).

 

Bronwen, I found the first half!!

The seller told me that the seal originally came from Odrzańskie in Western Poland, which was Crossen an der Oder in Brandenburg Germany before 1945. The seal is surely older than 1945, so I began researching German coat of arms in Brandenburg, and I came across the blue-gold seal for the Marwitz family, which features the oak stump.

 

You'll be joining the College of Heralds in no time. Is there a castle there or some other feature that would be a tourist attraction? Think we can rule out this being a lost treasure of the Marwitz family. Good going!

 

Keep going you two, this is so exciting!. Fake or not I love the glass/stone and it would look amazing in a ring or another fob.

 

It doesn't seem like there is anymore, but I'll do more research and see if there was anything before WWII.

I did find another Brandenburg heraldic crest with three axes, belonging to the Bardeleben family:

 

I read here & there in that heraldry guide & learned that when families marry, arms may be joined. Perhaps that's at work here.

 

I think I might have found a possible connection between the two families. The issue is that I can't figure out what "Ebe" means. I got "der frau von Marwitz, geborenen von Maren, und zwar aus deren erster Ebe mit v. Bardeleben und deren zweiter Ebe mit von der Marwitz" but that one word is preventing me from translating it.

 

It's not Ebe, it's Ehe. Try again.