Can anyone identify these sacred items? Also if possible from when and where?

The items are metallic and have been obtained from somewhere else in the past. Both the items are held sacred in the Apatani community(a tribe located in Eastern Himalayas in a state called Arunachal Pradesh near Indo-China border).

Here are the things:

(First)




(Second)


Originally taken from: http://learntanii.blogspot.com/2012/04/mythology-and-historicals-of-tanii.html


The second one seems to be a comb, though no idea from when and where exactly. First one I have totally no clue. Please help on both. Also, pardon my ignorance, I'm new.

 

Hello, blueblade. Can you tell us the size of each item?

 

Hi Bronwen, all I have is the info posted in the link given. Since the items are considered kind of sacred, it isn't touted out easily. That's why there's only so limited info and makes it more difficult. Sorry

 

They almost look like they came up from a shipwreck...without barnacles.

 

The objects look like they have been removed from a burial of some sort. If you know that "Both the items are held sacred in the Apatani community", it seems you should already know what they are. Your rather evasive statement that "Since the items are considered kind of sacred, it isn't touted out easily" sounds like you are not authorized to possess these items.

 

1st............
On one knee, by the pullywap bush... at the harvest moon....

HIIRAN YAJU - A sacred antique metallic piece recorded as per oral narration of history by NYIBU and POPI SARMIN, to have descended from IIPYO HIIRAN GANDA (IIPYO HIIRAN GANDA HO NYIBO PACHA LA HIIRAN YAJU MI PAGII TII)


2nd......
by the waters of the blood river.....in the dead of summer....

RANUH AKHII - A comb-shaped sacred metallic piece recorded to have been obtained from IIPYO RANUH by means of war, as per the oral narration of NYIBU and POPI SARMIN. (Iipyo ranuh ganda ho nyibo pacha la, Tanii Dree miina naniipa, Ranuh Akhii mi Paghii tii)

Ranii Akhii remains one of the most sacred and mysterious artefacts in Apatani culture. As per the oral history, the comb was brought from a mythological place called Wiipyo Ranii by a war expedition. "Wiipyo Ranii gañda ho nyibo pachala, Tanii Dree miinii naniipa, Ranii Akhii mi pagiitii," so goes the narration.
The tale of the akhii, which resembles some designs of Chinese comb, has always been baffling. During a major fire accident in Tajang village decades back, Tabyu Tabin, who was its custodian at the time, thought it has been burnt along with his house. To his amazement, however, the akhii returned unscathed a day after he re-constructed his house!
Ranii Akhii has always been kept away from ordinary people, especially children, as it would harm them in various ways if disturbed. If its curse causes, for example, skin diseases, that could be cured by propitiating the akhiiin appropriate ways. It was only during occasions like Dree that the sacred akhii could be freely seen by anybody. Did you see it this Dree?

HEY, THAT WAS EASY !!

http://learntanii.blogspot.com/2012/04/mythology-and-historicals-of-tanii.html

Now.....I don't make a habit of screwing with the sacred of other cultures..... cept maybe my Spoon Mouth...or eagle feather......or.....well you get the point....

but TMB....I doubt very much that he owns them........

More like a test to see if anyone here would look up the name written under the spike..!

So, do I win something ??????..

 

Could have been the case, but we live in a landlocked state.

 

It looks like that because of the lack of proper preservation.

No I don't. Hence why I'm out here asking for help.

I don't possess it. The site linked is not mine.

 

I can understand your skepticism friend. Hope you can understand my curiosity to understand our own culture.

Again, I don't own own the site or the items. But thought the antique experts might know something that I don't already know. Just genuinely curious about some things from my own home town/village. Is that harmful?

 

blueblade, am I right in thinking there is no one left among the Apatani who knows the true meaning or purpose of these items?
I don't think anyone here has sufficient knowledge of Apatani culture.

I can only relate what I see to objects from very different cultures, so any interpretation could be way off. It certainly won't have any information that is specific to Apatani culture.
But here it goes:

The first item could be moon related. The ring around the stem suggests movement, sound, rhythm. Maybe to do with trance? A specific rhythm can induce trance.

The second item looks sun related. Maybe for a sun festival, solstice?

Both sun and moon are important in agricultural societies.
Trance is important in Shamanism. Shamanism is where an intermediary, like a holy man or woman, is used to communicate with other realms or realities. Do you know if the Apatani have or had a Shamanic culture?

 

Perhaps not harmful, but we appreciate getting the full story from the start.

You might find useful information in this book:

The Sun Rises: A Shaman’s Chant, Ritual Exchange and Fertility in the Apatani Valley, by Stuart Blackburn. Published by Brill, in 2010. ISBN 9789004175785.

 

I guess that answers my question about the possibility of a Shamanic culture.

 

Hi Any Jewelry, thanks for the kind reply. It is true that most here won't have the knowledge of the culture. But what I wanted to find was if it looked related to any antique items of any other culture. Note that both are individual pieces and weren't self-made, so it has most likely been procured from somewhere else(as also explained in the linked site).

We do worship Sun and the Moon in our tribe, and yes we have shamans, but ours don't go into trance.

The second item I'm quite sure is a comb/hair pin of some sort, but can't point from where exactly. The first one seems too damaged, so I'm not sure about anything of it.

 

I apologize on not providing the full story from start, I didn't want to disclose anything of my personal info initially, but members seemed skeptic; sacrifice had to be made.

About the book, I have the whole of it. In fact people from my village were involved heavily in its making. It gives a deep dive into our culture but there's no mention of these particular items. I've also asked about it to the locals(including my father), but I don't think anyone actually knows. The site I linked has the best description of it.

In my best guess it could be some item from Tibet/China. Doesn't necessarily needs to be uncommon.

 

Thank you for explaining, blueblade.

I am afraid we all got off on the wrong foot.

We sometimes have new members here asking about objects that appear to be acquired improperly (looted), and we prefer not to encourage them.

We are also cautious about unfamiliar links.

It also was an unfortunate coincidence that you posted your question on April 1, which in many Western countries is called "April Fool's Day", on which pranks are common.

I did not understand that you did not have the objects in hand, and that you knew they were not made by the Apatani - perhaps something was "lost in translation".

So, you are looking for an explanation of these objects that is not based on tradition/mythology, and the assumption is that they originally came from some other Asian culture.

There are a few people here on the forum that are familiar with Asian art and artifacts - you have met @Any Jewelry already. @blooey may be able to help. There are likely others that l am not remembering at the moment, as well as others who are always ready to do research.

 

No idea, top one looks like it had organic components that rotted or were eaten away but that's my lot!

 

Ah, I kind of forgot it was April fools sorry . Thanks for understanding.

Yes, I am assuming both items came from some other place based on the fact that we (Apatani tribe) have never practiced metallurgy as far as I am aware of. Hence, most metallic things of the past are still considered precious in the valley. Same with beads. Leaving aside the modern tools which came after British India, the metals of any sort from the past are mostly treasured and hereditary goods, which can be exchanged during marriage ceremonies. Some examples of metallic things we hold precious are Tibetan Yigong Daos and old brass plates. Generally, the older it is the more precious its value is.

We have no script of our own and hence no written history. So all that remains is the oral traditions, but that too is fading. Before all these go out eventually, I wanted to know what I can of them, and if possible, also share it with rest of the community.

 

If it helps, in the labelled first item the "yaju" part means "ladle" in our language. But it makes no sense since we used gourd ladles in the past.

 

I will do some more digging. And I may remember something, I am of an age where you have so much information stored away in the crevices of the brain that it is difficult to find that one essential thing.

Also very Shamanic.
I grew up with Shamanism, mostly Indonesian. In the Indonesian islands of Java and Madura there is a concept of 'kesaktean', where objects (and certain people) can acquire more and more special power over the years and through ritual etc.
I also studied theology, specialising in Shamanism in a general sense, so your quest is of special interest to me.

I think it is great that you want to know more about your culture. So many people think that moving forward means letting go of the past. It doesn't, the past enriches the present. What are we without the ancestors.

 

Wow, that's interesting. Glad you are willing to help in the effort. I hope it helps you in some way too. Outsiders who visit do say we have parallels with South East Asia in general.