Featured Irish Loving Cup

The '13 || 15' (looks like originally 13 || 16) was the scratch weight - 13 troy ounces, 15 pennyweight.

~Cheryl

 

Yes, you are correct, AnyJewelry. The cup is being sold here in the Chicago area. Right where they dye the Chicago River green on St. Patrick’s Day. I grew up in this predominantly Irish Catholic area on Chicago’s southwest side. I suspect that this “decorating” was done as it passed generations as a gift but that is only a guess. My predicament now is to figure out how much will this adversely impact the value!?!

 

Seems on the low side, Cheryl as it currently weighs just under 60 troy ounces.

 

I agree, bakersgma. Someone has taken some “creative liberties” after the original silversmith. Btw, I am finding that some regard Thomas Boulton as Dublin’s greatest silversmith. With these decorative changes, I am clueless on the value.

https://www.huntmuseum.com/event/thomas-bolton-dublins-greatest-silversmith/

 

Hunh, that's unusual - scratch weights are usually pretty close to correct. Pretty typical form, but must indicate something else...

~Cheryl

 

Let me propose something incredibly radical here! Is it conceivable that the cup has two parts? A top “half” and a bottom “half”?

 

In your second set of photographs I see a 59 || 15 next to Andrew's name ... could the 13||16 be on the lid?

 

You are correct, quirkygirl. Let me inquire about the 13 ||16?

 

Thanks so much for explaining what those numbers were about. I was clueless, but was afraid someone would assume they were date related. Having never seen "scratch weights" before, I'm wondering if this was a uniquely Irish thing or just during a particular period?

 

Not particularly uncommon on old British holloware, sometimes even has three numbers, the last for grains; also occasionally found on 18th century American silver, and will sometimes show up on European pieces, but usually corresponding to different measuring systems...

~Cheryl

 

Thanks!

 

Should mention that they're sometimes well-engraved rather than clumsily scratched (and will sometimes even note 'oz', 'dwt', etc.), and separators between the digits vary - could be like these, among others: ‖ ײ ꞊ - _• . :

~Cheryl

 

Hm. that does make me wonder if the lid was an addition. Are both halves hallmarked?

 

Was on my phone earlier, can see the '59 || 15' now, along with '??? Cover' (perhaps the weight with lid/cover), as well as some other scratched out marks by the 'M* * D* 19**', those may be connected to what appears to be fairly considerable repair-work on the pedestal (assuming those pics are showing the underside of the base). Where are the marks struck, and as Bear asked, do both pieces bear hallmarks as they should?

~Cheryl

 

I noticed that pedestal work as well, Cheryl. I have an outstanding inquiry with the seller. It may be Monday before I hear back. He mistakenly called this a 20th Century piece, probably interpreting the engraving date as being original to the piece. I am trying not to call too much attention to the piece and certainly do not want to correct him unless I decide against pursuing the it.

 

Fun thread.....I keep going back to view the item, looking at it with every speculation.
From the talk , it would seem like this lovely silver started out life looking a lot different than it does now.

 

It sure seems that way, komokwa. Probably a little like refinishing antique furniture with respect to the impact on value, I suspect. The question is how much do I want to invest. $1500 for sure. $2500 probably but not sure how much higher. Any thoughts from the resident experts? I know we are still waiting to learn more. I did learn this was from the estate of a prominent lake shore drive surgeon who was quite a collector.

 

Daniel, I edited out the name and year on my post in case the seller starts poking around online with the info he has - wouldn't want this thread to turn up...

~Cheryl

 

You are very wise, Cheryl. I should chosen a title that was more obscure for the thread! If anyone has solid thoughts on value, perhaps direct message and suggest melt value publicly!

 

It's really nice, & I laud your zeal at wanting it in your possession ........but without any documentation on it's complicated life and the thoughts that it's no longer what it started out as........I would give it a hard pass....unless the cost came down below what you are willing to risk.

But that's just me !!