Haviland Limoges backstamp confusion

Don't understand how these two marks can coexist. The Haviland mark is Mark F, dating between 1876-1889. The other mark, from anything I have found, suggests much earlier. Please help

 

The crossed L mark is not really Sevres, maybe the style or the decorator was really proud of their work? Go with the other mark.

 

agreed

 

The L with a line over it is a Haviland backstamp which I have seen in several sources saying the aforementioned info.
The only single example of the squiggly stamp that I have seen suggests the mid to late 1700's.

 

Thank you very much for all your input. Forgot my manners for a moment

 

If anyone has more info on the squiggly, it would be much appreciated. I don't think it dates back to the 18th century.
Thanks again

 

Blooey tried to explain to you that the blue, crossed L mark is a spurious Sevres mark. It is a proper Haviland mark for the years that you mentioned.

 

WELCOME Freddy !!! ... Joy.

 

Hi Freddy!

Welcome to Antiquers................

 

Thanks for the welcoming, but can someone please explain the other mark (squiggly thing). I found one source that says it is from before 1753.
By spurious, do you mean fake or misleading?
Thanks again

 

Something that is spurious seems to be genuine, but is false.

THE END

 

If there are two marks, I would think the blank was Haviland and the other mark belongs to the decorator, done at any time after your Haviland dates. Don't we always say the maker of the blank is not important?

 

My fascination with hand painted porcelain plates is recent, hence my ignorance.
When Bloody mentioned the Sevres mark, I didn't know he was talking about double L mark.
He mentioned it might be there because the artist might have been particularly proud of their work.
So why exactly does the artist want to include a mark that precedes the Haviland mark by over 100 years.
Would it be solely to make it appear older?
Have to mention how much fun I am enjoying in the solving of my mystery and all you wonderful folks that are making it happen.
A very big thank you!

 

I don't understand why the decorator would choose a well known mark from 100 years earlier. Thanks

 

What does the front of the plate look like? It was very common for ladies (hobbyists, not major decorating houses) to hand paint white china blanks during the timeframe of the Haviland mark. It was considered correct and genteel (and fun and a way to express yourself). It is not uncommon for the same "Pattern" to have been painted on china blanks from any number of different companies so long as the piece was all white. These pieces weren't sold, they were typically given as gifts or just stayed in the family on display.

So whoever painted this plate decided to sign it in a quirky way. Like someone said, maybe she thought her wares were just as good as Sevres. Or maybe she was trying to replicate an older Sevres pattern that was in her family. Who knows?? The lady who painted this is not here to answer our questions, so we merely speculate and that's all we have.

 

Because these wares were never sold, therefore, no rights to the mark were stolen, no infringment. The painter's first and last names may have started with an L and she thought this was too cool.

 

The front of the plate is hand painted. It features flowers, berries, and turning leaves.
The details are extraordinarily realistic. It's gorgeous.
The signature is Breton and bears an uncanny resemblance to that of Jules Breton, an incredibly prominent and famous painter of realism during the 19th century.
If there was any possibility of this being true, it might really be worth something.
I welcome plausibility opinions from anyone.
Thanks and I look so forward to any response.
Thanks

 

You will no doubt get opinions, but not unless you post a photo of the front of the plate. It's easy to do by clicking "upload a file" when you post a response. Sounds like a mystery worth considering and I for one would love to see the plate.

 

There are a few other Haviland plates signed by Breton on the worthpoint site.

 

The Worthpoint "Haviland Breton" listings are all (except one) for the pattern "Breton" not an artist signature. The one that is artist signed, actually says "Berton" not Breton and is (curiously) currently listed on eBay (be sure & look closely at the signature - the seller is mistaken in the spelling): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-Paint...592732?hash=item3b4198a31c:g:xFAAAOSwEgRd-Tc2