Hebrew or Arabic Script?

I'm probably not going to get a translation here, but would just like to know if Hebrew or Arabic script?

Thank you!

 

Looks like shorthand notes.

Maybe someone can read Pitmans

 

Amazing! Thanks, AF!

This is one of the reasons why I love this board and you folks. I learn something new everyday.

The script does appear to be Pitman shorthand.

 

Okay, here's goes nothing but . . . reading from the top line down (if by any chance it is Gregg shorthand -- it looks like it is "shortform" Gregg)

Note: Those quote marks (") under words between lines mean that the word(s) above are proper (meaning capitalized) words/names.

Jim Miller
(Second line is a mystery to me)
Mike (second name a mystery)
"Ray"? Elman??
Jack (Jake?) Libaugh?? Or could end in "bow" or "bough"

 

Thank you for trying to decipher the inscription. At least now I have an idea of what it is and something to work with.

We have purchased MANY pieces of ceramics over roughly a 3 year period, and I have never seen a piece with shorthand inscriptions at the base. Any ideas on why someone would place this form of inscription on base?

We assume the writer is giving some form of provenance and/or ownership by adding these names(?) and dates at right (not sure if the 85 stands for 1885 or 1985).

The item also looks to have once been cataloged by someone or some institution given the faint letters & numbers (EC22500) near the footrim.

 

If it's a date it's 1985. The other numerals are not 19th C,

 

Thanks, AF.

Agreed. We kind of figured that. It should have been worded: "not sure if the 85 stands for 1885 or 1985, but most likely 1985". The item itself is most certainly 19th/early-20th C. I'm not going to post images of it at the moment, but it's very similar to this: http://www.harvardartmuseums.org/art/201348 but in our opinion, of a better glaze and form.

 

Yourturn,

The second mystery line or the second mystery name, could it possibly contain the name(s):

Howard ?
Rockefeller ?
Ron ?
Mary ?

 

"Nuff, no, that second line doesn't look like any of those names would (should).

You know what it really looks like? Hold on -- "Lunch Chuden / Shuden" or "Chooden/Chooten" or "Shooden/Shooten" or "Shoodan/Shootan"

 

Thank you so much for trying to help with these inscriptions.

Forgetting the inscriptions for now, I just wanted to share with you all the item in which they are written on. This item came from a Greenwich, CT. estate and was totally misidentified by both the estate auctioneers and the picker who picked it.

We assume the reason for this misidentification of the piece is because it's quite rare. What makes it "rare" is its size, form and flambé glaze (the images do the glaze color no justice whatsoever. It's of a much more lavender or purplish in color then darker blues as it appears in the images). Don't get me wrong, there are flambé ewers out there, but not many at all in this size (12-1/2 in.) form (imitating an older ancient form) or fine potted craftsmanship featuring five-looped handles, trumpet-mouth and a conical-spout. I've only been able to locate one other somewhat similar example sold by Sotheby's in 1979.

What's even a bit crazy, is this ewer is 1 of 2 "rare" Chinese ewers we've been so blessed to have purchased within a month or so. The other is the large Ming (1368 - 1644) Period piece at left. The flambé piece in our opinion dates no earlier than the 18th C., and no later than the early-20th C. Most likely potted in the 19th/early-20th C.

 

Ray Elman is a noted photographer and artist who was part of the Outer Cape Art Colony and who, in 1985, co-founded the "Provincetown Arts" magazine. Could this be a notation of when the ewer was used in a photo shoot? That might make sense of that second line.

 

Hi elarnia,

I searched using that name (Ray Eman) and the others given by yourturntoloveit, but found no association to this item whatsoever.

Searching the other suggestions given by the same poster also turned up zero.

@ yourturntoloveit, your last possible translation was: "Lunch Chuden / Shuden" or "Chooden/Chooten" or "Shooden/Shooten" or "Shoodan/Shootan".

Is it possible that one of those above could be: "Zhushan or Shulan" ???

There was excavation going on in that part of China during the 1980s near an imperial kiln, but I seriously doubt this item was excavated.

The dates inscribed on base are: "12.22.85 & 12.31.85".

 

'Nuff, let me have a while to consider "Zhushan" and "Shulan" --

How would "Zhushan" be pronounced? Can you give me a phonetic spelling of that name?

The "main" premise of shorthand is how words "sound/are pronounced." It is not about a quick letter-by-letter "recording" of how they are properly spelled in the public arena for posterity.

It may take me a bit of time (a few hours perhaps) to get back to you.

 

'Nuff, I am still stumped on the second one. After studying the names again and sleeping on it overnight, I am still unable to say what that second name "probably is/may be." But, as I said in my last post, if you could give me the pronunciation of "Zhushan" perhaps . . . .?????????

 

Yourturn,

I thank you soooo much for taking the timeout to try and help decipher these inscriptions. Very, very much appreciated. Please, do not spend another single second trying. We sent images out to a professional shorthand translation service and hopefully they'll be getting back to us soon. Again, I thank you so much for trying to help. Will update once they reply with a translation. Thank you!

 

'Nuff, would you please do me a favor and, once the translation is accomplished, would you use the "private message" system here on this forum to let me know my "batting average" with the words (proper names). I really would appreciate it.

I don't want to know the specific names necessarily, just if I was at least "in the ballpark" with any of the possibilities I listed for the names or if I was correct in ruling out some of the possible names.

 

Yourturn,

I was trying to send you a PM, but couldn't figure out how. I received a couple, replied to a couple, but never sent one.

I was able to have the inscriptions translated and just wanted to say your "batting average" is very high. They are proper names as you suggested and are probably the names of former owners ????. If you PM me, I can give you the exact translations if you wish?

Thanks again for your time and help.

 

'Nuff, I have sent you a message (conversation).