Turkish brass table depicts what legend?

If the professor is able to translate most of this, I'll be happy. I'll post whatever I get. I won't be too surprised if somewhere on it is something like "Made by Ahmed in Cairo, 1967." I hope the text explains the scenes pictured, there's gotta be an interesting story in there.

 

I wouldn't bet on text explaining scenes....

 

You're probably on the right track there. Considering NONE of the original purchasers of these trays would be able to read the text, the makers knew it didn't matter what they put on it, so maybe most of it is gibberish. The text under the central scene did make sense to the lady, but she didn't have time to look at the rest of it.

 

I surfed around looking to match the costumes pictured on the tray and the closest I got was Mamluk. They were Muslim fighters who existed in many different parts Of the Middle East from about the 9th thru 19th centuries. The tray may be somehow commemorative if related to them at all, but I think the professor will explain it tomorrow if my visit isn't snowed-out. What impressed me greatly in my surfing was Mamluk glass and brassware, especially some of it made ca. 1300. I'll post some images from Sotheby's and Getty. Some of the items carried auction estimates ca. $500K. Now I want some! Fol. Images used here under doctrine of free use for educational purposes.

 

The DC area is closed today, snowed-in, can't meet with the prof so began by sending him the 7 cartoon pictures. Here's his comment so far: "They are certainly not made by Arabs. Could be Persian, Turkish, South Asian, or East Asian. There is a rich calligraphy history in these regions.

The quality is much better here and I can read the words in the first pic. At the top of that pic, there is an inscription of the words the "army of Jacob" and then "Joseph" جيش يعقوب يوسف. Below the army image, there is an inscription that reads هذة السنية شغل عبدالقادر "This brass is the work of Abdulkader." His last name could read in a number of ways, but I cannot determine the exact name.

I think if you send me equally clear images of the other calligraphy in the brass, I may be able to decode it!"

So I will .

 

I visited the professor in his office today. He very kindly took the time to interpret the scenes depicted on the tray. The only text of much interest was in the D-shaped section below the central image. This identified the craftsman as Abdulkedar and the date of production as Islamic year 1307, or 1889 on our calendar.

The text in the two concentric rings are some of the 99 names of God, each beginning with Al..., such as "Al Sultan."

The story depicted is clearly the Koran's version of the story of Joseph, son of Jacob. Aka, Yusuf and Zulaikha, wife of Potiphar. When you've looked at the scenes on the tray, then start reading at link below, you can recognize it easily. Joseph's dream is depicted with the 11 planets over him in his bed, and his being deposited in a well by his brothers is there too, as is the advance made on him by the wife of Potiphar. She's the one depicted wearing the crown-like hat. Joseph is described as being, in modern terms, a super-hunk, and it seems everywhere he went, women were chasing him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_in_Islam

We still don't know exactly where the tray was made but I'm sure I'll find out one of these days. The professor said the tray definitely gives him the feeling of the Asian Muslim countries, Turkey etc, as he mentioned earlier, rather than Arabs.

 

It is logical and very detailed analysis. Nice find.

 

Did the "Prof" state which language the the script was? Ottoman Turkish was written different than standard Arabic.With the pattern "trace/guide" lines not being chased and followed properly would the piece be a later copy?

 

The Arabic used wasn't unique enough to ID one specific country but he did think it was Asiatic as opposed to Arab. Sorry I don't know enough to do more than repeat what he said. He listed a number of possibilities in post #48.

I'm not following what you mention regarding the lines not being followed, I wonder if that could be an artifact of my fooling around with the photo contrast, brightness etc. to make the details stand out better?

Regarding the date, all I know is what I was told was written on it. True it doesn't look that old so it must have been dipped to clean it or might have been plated with a non-oxidizing metal when made. I'm sure I don't know all there is to know about this item, by a long shot.

One possible indication that it has some age is the fact that the brass seems to have stretched maybe due to objects placed on it when used as a table. There's a brass slat soldered on the back to improve the stiffness of the large flat circular area, and it is still just a bit loose or wobbly-feeling. The solder joints don't look more than a few decades old.

 

The 4 closeups which can be enlarged in the first post has many "trace lines which were not followed when the piece was chased.There are also a number of lines which cross the non chased border circles and arcs.

There appears to be a "divet" in the center between the 2 men,possibly a center point for a compass.

 

Here's another one a little smaller, but generally similar scenes, and more of them. Has animals and some nudity. Seller dates it late 19th C. It is a bit wavy on the surface like mine. It was crafted by a different person than mine, it appears.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Islamic-Judaica-Tray-Quran-Story-Prophet-Yusaf-Joseph-Cairoware-Arabic-Writing-/361268447516?nma=true&si=Mxwigv0%2F2Or2YE4%2FgibkJpYuqBM%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Ok I donned a loupe to check the lines you mention, and again I think it is an issue with my photography. Every black line, hash mark, tiny dot, or stipple is a depression in the brass made with a tool. There are no surface-only marks made with ink or anything else. If I can find a way to show that better I will.

 

Just a guess there is more than 50 pattern lines made by a "compass point" which were not followed when the piece was chased.A number of these cross the unchased arcs,ovals,etc.

 

Thanks, still trying to visualize. What does "unchased" mean?

 

Unchased are the areas which have had nothing done to the surface of the metal

 

Or it could be a fairly recent copy of an older item. Looking at the quality of the work, it just doesn't look any different to me than trays brought back by my parents from the Middle East circa 1960. Rather than creating original designs in that tricky calligraphy, the artisans would just make a bunch of trays to older designs; copies of copies.
It just looks to me like the kind of work one would expect 65 years ago, rather than 126. I'd have to say the same about the tray in the ebay link, I'm afraid. To judge by ebay, there are many 19th century trays around, and very few 21st century ones; but a visit to any import shop will show just the opposite.
It is certainly very nice to know what the illustrations depict, though, and a very interesting research project.

 

Yes I wonder how the auction houses date them? Here are 3 nice-looking trays described by a famous house as late 19th c.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/...aid-brass-trays-egypt-or-5344129-details.aspx