Turkish brass table depicts what legend?

I find the detail on the side of the water container have similar composition to that on your table, but the photo is too small for me to see everything.

 

Took it by the hair salon and asked a Persian lady to look. She called the Egyptian lady over. The text is in Arabic and the Egyptian lady thought the tray may be from Morocco, possibly Iraq. The text under the central picture says the tray was made for Abdul Karter, for his house. She said one of the scenes illustrates some kind of victory. Abdul commissioned the tray, it wasn't made as a tourist piece. After what she said, I srarted thinking it might be a family history of some kind, and if so, no wonder we can't seem to interpret it easily. The other writing on it has names, dates etc. She didn't get into those details so I may go back to the Imam at the large mosque, he seems to be able to read calligraphy easily. She said the tray isn't a religious object.

 

There is arabic writing all over the plate.
I was thinking Syria but wouldnt exclude Balkans. When turks conquered the area in 14th century, they left local rulers in their place and just collected taxes and used their armies in their own conquests.
In any case it is a beautiful plate.

 

The sword looks Persian to me, or possibly even Indian. I don't think it's Christian as they would have preferred a cruciform hilt and straight blade.

 

If we're looking at the same sword, the type is known as a Mamluke and by other names depending on what country it is in at the time. It is a type widely used in the Mideast, South Asia, North Africa, and the US Marine Corps, with minor local variations of the basic design.

 

Yeah, but we're not talking modern times. I'd say common to Islamic countries back in the times depicted.

 

The basic form of the Mamluke sword is the Kilij which dates from the 15th C. The tray shows a sword the same general form but not in enough detail to differentiate between Kilij, Shamshir, Mamekuke, etc.

I wish I had more clues to dating the 7 scenes depicted on the tray. Would be very interesting if it had been made to commemorate the 19th C. exploits of Abdulkedar, for example. The lady I asked to interpret the tray has a heavy accent and she could have been saying that name for all I know.

 

I need to let you know that some of the scenes from your plate are more in a christian than a muslim manner, especially those depicting dearly departed men and women.
I dont think this is plate commemorative to a win. If you take closer look in the cental motiff, christian king bears his sword and moslem "invader" bears only a walking cane.

 

Thanks. Agree the scenes are confusing. I think my next move will be to get more of the Arabic text translated. The lady said there are dates in the text and I should be able to pick those and convert to our calendar, I've done that before.

 

Nope, the calligraphy keeps me from recognizing the numbers.

Back to the central scene, I think everyone in it except the crowned person is from the same army. The round-helmeted soldiers with swords and shields are on left. On right are the officers with puffy hats and halberds. The hero at center right with same puffy hat is a compassionate victor because he has his arm around the downcast, sad, conquered, crowned figure on left. Maybe.

 

Here's the interesting 19th C. Character I mentioned earlier. He led an Algerian (?) army in some battles against the French, ca. 1840's, and won some of them. The name Abdelkedar sounds like what the lady was reading to me. Long shot admittedly but is the only possible historical connection I've run across so far.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelkader_El_Djezairi

 

Took it by the mosque but they are busy with other things right now. Contacted a couple of Arabic professors at local universities and one readily agreed to look at it next week. Persistence pays.

 

I hate to sound skeptical, but if it was me I'd ask the profs and Imam if they thought it was really made for Abdul Kadir or was just a tourist piece with a random or copied inscription. I've seen too many tourist pieces very similar to this, and the quality of the work doesn't look any better than on most mid-20th century tourist items; cruder than many, actually. The quality just isn't what I'd expect on an old commissioned piece. I'd be thinking and asking about possible anomalies; script or grammar differing from supposed country of origin, for example.
To make a comparison to a field you are probably more familiar with, if a person showed you a mid-20th century black powder pistol, with an inscription "Dan'l Boone" and asked what you thought the purpose was, you'd answer, "commercially made for sale to a hobbyist, in the 1950s" and if they said "but surely it was made for Dan'l Boone" you'd answer, "sorry, no; and stop calling me Shirley."
Just as for a tray like this one found at http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...q=imported persian brass tray&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=
it would be pretty much meaningless to ask what the scenes represent, or what the inscription means.
Sorry, but when dealing with stuff I don't know much about, and lacking any opinions from experts, I tend towards skepticism.

 

That one you pictured would fit right in my collection but I'm runnin' outta wall space. And yes I still think my tray is late 20th C. based on the appearance of the metal. No signs of a past cleaning that I can see.

BTW I've never seen this type of tray that I thought was made before sometime in the 20th C. Has anybody?

 

It does have a number of tracing/guide lines that were not "cleaned up" after the chasing was done.

 

What I like most and what makes me curious is the way people and objects are presented. Very middle ages.
I would like for someone to prove me wrong by showing contemporary plate with even similar characters

 

I'm thinking the medieval look is a reference to the Achaemenid empire of around 350 BC; a common theme on tourist trays from 1950, which is about where I'd place the one in this thread. Several currently on ebay, some pretty pricey, others not so much.
The crowns do give a medieval Europe look, but the pantaloons on the men indicate Middle East, not Europe.

 

None of this pair is remotely similar to Spf plate . But thats besides the point, I didnt mean to say that the plate is ancient.
I agree that the craftsmenship is average at best, but I like the art

 

Nothing wrong with liking what one likes. I'm not trying to argue, I can't claim any expertise; just advocating healthy skepticism as far as the meaning of the scenes and inscriptions, beyond that they were appealing to tourists at the time the piece was made.

 

I find myself to be the essence of scepticism and I share your standpoint. I just dont see this as tourist piece