Featured Is this a coin?

Discussion in 'Silver' started by RuthEP, Dec 27, 2024 at 5:32 AM.

  1. RuthEP

    RuthEP Member

    The medallion in question is set in a typical silver filigree Eastern European hanukkah lamp. I can't figure out the iconography and its origins and would like your help. Is it a coin? What does it show? I feel it can help me date the lamp.
    תמונה של WhatsApp‏ 2024-12-27 בשעה 12.29.41_b6633ee7.jpg 91720_ca_object_representations_media_68713_large.jpg
     
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  2. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    Yes it's a medallion of some sorts, not a numismatical coin.
     
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is a beauty, Ruth.
    As you said, Eastern European, although I have seen them here in the Netherlands as well. The ones here are probably from Ashkenazim from Poland, many of whom ended up here in the 19th century. Yours could be Polish made as well.

    Maybe the symbol on the medallion is connected with a town, a coat of arms?

    Current Polish municipal coats of arms (old ones could be different):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Municipal_coats_of_arms_in_Poland
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2024 at 7:03 AM
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  4. Marote

    Marote Well-Known Member

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  5. RuthEP

    RuthEP Member

  6. RuthEP

    RuthEP Member

    I'll definitely try comparing it to town emblems. I suppose it can be any of the hundreds of shtetls across the pale of settlement.
     
  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Or something else entirely. And some coats of arms change over time, even more so during the Communist era.
     
  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    But it looks like Polish origin is a pretty safe bet.
     
  9. Marote

    Marote Well-Known Member

    On the Sotheby's version, it does look like arrows, but on yours it looks more like leaves. The croissant shaped thing in the middle looks like weat. So I wondered if it could have something to do with the 4 species. The longer thing in the middle looks a bit like a besamim
    upload_2024-12-27_14-17-23.png
     
  10. RuthEP

    RuthEP Member

    That's an interesting thought. I would guess the silversmith had the medallions ready and didn't design them himself, so they would have to have universal Polish meaning, but everything is possible.
     
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  11. bosko69

    bosko69 Well-Known Member

    "Besamim" is a Hebrew word that literally means "spice" or "scent",is that definition correct ?
     
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  12. RuthEP

    RuthEP Member

    Yes. In this case it signifies a spice holder for the ceremony that ends the sabbath.
     
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  13. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Is the encircling object (c shaped) perhaps a laurel leaf wreath?

    Debora
     
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  14. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Ruth's is an oil menorah, not candles. Those are actually "proper" from what I remember, since the miracle was that the oil for the Temple lampstand was only supposed to last for one night and lasted for eight. That's another indicator it could be an oldie.
     
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  15. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Someplace in the back corners of my memory I remember seeing that design on postage stamps. Just don't ask me whose.

    I don't associate filigree silver with Poland. Could it have been made somewhere like Portugal and exported?
     
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  16. bosko69

    bosko69 Well-Known Member

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  17. RuthEP

    RuthEP Member

    That's definitely a solid direction. I'll try and find similar contemporaries.

    Polish or Russian stamps? Do you hapen to remember?
    Actually, filigree silver is a very typical Polish/Russian Jewish technique. There are thousands of artefacts in various collections.

    Thanks! Yes, it has a prestigious provenance. It belongs to the estate of the second Israeli president, Yitzhak Ben Tzvi, native of Russian Empire (now Ukraine), deceased 1963. While received as a gift for his 70th birthday, it probably reminded him of home in the town of Poltava.
    The lamp you found is very Austrian and while the general design is that of a lamp and so similar, the details are very much unlike - for example, the repousse work, the rail design, the flowers, all of which can be found on numerous non-jewish silver objects from Austria. The lamp at hand is more folk-artsy-Polish-Russian, albeit a very well made one.
     
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  18. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Absolutely. And non-Jewish Eastern European as well.
    In fact silver and gold filigree was made all over Europe, but certain regions produced more than others.
    I think many people in the US associate filigree with Portugal because Portugal exported a lot of filigree.
     
  19. bosko69

    bosko69 Well-Known Member

    I wonder if it will end up in a museum-it's got some deep history.You're knowledge is impressive-curatorial.
     
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  20. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    I usually go mentally to Portugal and Italy first, because they exported a pile to the USA. That is if it's not Chinese; they made a ton for export too. The medallion rings bells, but bedarned if I know from where; my brain might be conflating it with some old Norwegian ones.

    Since it's already in Israel, it's where it belongs. When I still sold on eBay, I shipped more than one more contemporary menorah there. So of course I'm going to a Chanukkah party tonight and can't find mine! (figures!)
     
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